[inquiry]

I have enjoyed watching all the "relay' auctions starting 1M-2C in the world championship. I long ago gave up P-1H-2C as natural (switched to a flavor of drury).

Recently I gave up 1M-2C as purely natural. I am currently using 2C as recommended by ETM Victory, as it is easy to play, and seems to fit with current philosophy of bidding (this 2C, which is multi-meaning, is forcing only to 2M, and can range from balanced game invite, to constructive M raise with 3 card support, to true game force with clubs or balanced hand game force (with or without clubs).

I have also been reading about the GF relay. I wonder how others, who don't go with as 2C natural, like what they are currently playing.

Ben

[inquiry]

Let me explain how I am currently playing major suit raises and the use of the ETM-victory based 2C response.

1M-2NT = is limit raise or better
1M-3M = is preemptive with 4 card support
1M-2M = is semi-preemptive, 0-bad 7 hcp, three card support
1M-1NT = semi=forcing, denies 3 card support, denies good balanced 10+, denies ability to make 2/1 gf,
1H-2S/3C/3D = fit jump, limited not game forcing
1S-3C/3D/3H = fit jump, limited not game forcing
1M-2C <--- muliti meaning

This 2C is multi meaning. It is either
1) TRUE game force with clubs (rebid new suit, clubs, etc)
2) Constructive raise or better with 3 card support (rebid raise)
3) Balanced hand good 10 up (rebids NT)

Over 2C we use three useful agreement. Any bid but 2M or 2D by opener is game force. 2M is to be passed by responder if he is looking at a constructive (8-10 hcp) hand, but he can raise with 11-12. Opener can bid 2D to ask responder for what hand he holds. Responder bids 2M with any non-game forcing heart raise (remember if opener wanted to stop opposite the weakest heart holding, he would bid 2M). Over 2D, a jump to 3H shows real clubs, real heart fit, game force, 2NT and 3NT over 2D show weak and stronger balanced hand.

Not exactly sure what good this does in the long run. This scheme does simplify the 1NT auctions (no three card support), allow direct raise to 2M on "junk" (which has been both good and bad), and allow the use of Garrozo 2-3 doubles after the 2C response (which has lead to some yummy penalties when 2C bidder is balanced).

Ben

[flytoox]

Ben, before cast my vote, can you give us the relay structure? I need to know how it goes before voting.
As you said, i also noticed this trend. Seems Italy and Norway, and usa1 all use relay. I will try to learn if it is logical and easy to follow. After all, victory proves its power.

[Free]

Since I play Bergen raises when I play majors-5, we use 2C to describe either a natural bid or a 3-4-3-3 with 10-11 HCP. Supporting with an invitational hand and 3-card support, we bid our 4 card suit first, but 1S-2H promisses 5+H.

So 2C allways promisses 3+C and 10+HCP.

[inquiry]

Quote

Ben, before cast my vote, can you give us the relay structure? I need to know how it goes before voting.
As you said, i also noticed this trend. Seems Italy and Norway, and usa1 all use relay. I will try to learn if it is logical and easy to follow. After all, victory proves its power.

I am trying to find out what people play, and what they like. I am not ready to defend any particular relay structure, because the only ones I have found so far are based upon the strength of the opening bid, which is limited due to the lack of opening a "forcing" or "two way" 1C.

I am looking for what other people play. I seem to play it backwards (forcing, but not to game) compared to what is the standard at the world level. So I am exploring the possibilities. But here is a simple distributional continuation I have seen....

1S-2C-?
2D = 4+ hearts two suited
2H = 5+ Spade no second suit
2S = 4+ Club two suited
2N = exactly 4 Diamond, 2 suited
3C = 5+ diamond 2 suited
3D = 5-4-0-4
3H = 5-0-4-4
3S = I am embarshed I opened 1S
3N = 5-4-4-0

1H-2C
2D = 5+ hearts one suiter
2H = 4+ Spade no second suit
2S = 4+ Club two suited
2N = exactly 4 Diamond, 2 suited
3C = 5+ diamond 2 suited
3D = 4-5-0-4
3H = I am embarshed I opened 1H
3S = 0-5-4-4
3N = 4-5-4-0

Over 2D, 2H, 2S then 2NT is relay asking for shortness.



Ben

[the hog]

We play 1M 2C as either natural with C, or as few as 2C in a strong hand. This has come about because of a variet of reasons, one being Michael Lucy's thread here early this year, the other being that we play a Polish system.

Sequences:
1H 2C
2D 2H 9-11 with 5C and 3H
2N GF may be artificial, tell me more
3H Strong, sets H - follow ups are Serious 3N etc
4H Picture jump

This has implications for the rest of the system
1H 2C
3C At least 15+ good C support. Weaker hands have to rebid 2D/2M

It also means that your 2/1 s, which we play as GF with the exception of the above described sequences, show a real suit.

I have had a look at the the ETM structure and think it is very good. I would probably prefer to play this or to play 1M 2C as a GFR based on the Ice relay or similar structure, however my present ftf pd is not a relay afficionado :-(

Re another thread, also mentioned in this one - Bergen raises - we do not like these and do not play them. Most of the invit and balanced GF raises with support go via a forcing NT.

[hrothgar]

Personally, I have never understood the point of using 2C as a GF relay:

If you are going to play, relay, bite the bullet and use first step as your strong, artifical and forcing response. You save lots of space. Its easier to preserve symmetry, Yada-yada-yade.

[the hog]

Yes, I know that in symmetric 1M 1N is a GF relay, and I have played that, but found that too often that goes against the field, or lets opps in if you have to pass 1M eg 1S P on xx Axxx xx Kxxxx . The C suit is simply not good enough to bid a nf 2C here, and playing symmetric, your only option is to pass.

[inquiry]

Quote

We play 1M 2C as either natural with C, or as few as 2C in a strong hand. This has come about because of a variet of reasons, one being Michael Lucy's thread here early this year,

Here is a link to the earlier thread.
http://forums.bridgebase.com/in...t=msg326#msg326

[mishovnbg]

Hi all!
I dont like any type of drurry conventions, because like to psyche often from 3 position. So I prefer fit responses in suit (values) both jump and non jump and direct raise with at least 4, normally 5 cards. Without fit my p can bid 1NT - if he had good 1/2 suited hand, he can open from 1 position and no need to change mind later .
2CL by unpassed hand MUST be kind of realy - there are a lot of hands without clear natural bid. Instead of lie to partner, better to not say him anything... By the way same apply to opener, but it is another story from future 8).
Misho