[mike777]

Round of 16 in the Vanderbilt you have this hand:

Qxx...Axx...KJT98...Jx
Fav. vul.

2H=P=P=?

[hatchett]

Pass, No accurate call to describe the hand and the upside is an NV game.

[whereagles]

I'm gonna bid 3♦. Don't ask me why. I just feel 3♦ is right.

[luis]

3!d protecting pd,
There are many hands where pd can't bid over 2♥ and we have a game so I take the risk and protect my pd bidding what I have.

Luis

[pclayton]

3♦ - might win the part score; might turn a -110 into a -50.

But best of all, we might catch pard with a 13-14 count that makes 3N cold. Against that, we are probably getting 2♥ -200 or -300, so its no great gain.

But bidding seems the best way to get the plus.

[jdonn]

I can't believe people are bidding 3♦, my thoughts are more along the lines of what is this problem doing here? (Phil, say it ain't so!)

There is a range of hands for partner (lets say 13-14) where you generally want to be in 3NT, but he will bid 3NT (or 3♥ to get you to bid it) with a much lower range, something like 9+. You will probably get to about 4 or 5 bad 3NTs when you had a plus on defense for every good 3NT, and often will be doubled in those cases as the partner of the 2♥ bidder may have a fair hand.

Keep in mind also that they are vul, meaning the 2♥ opener is on a decent hand, and that you are probably getting them for 200 undoubled anyway when you have game, or maybe 300. 5 or 6 (or 3) imps is hardly enough upside to make this overbid.

[han]

I hate it but I end up agreeing with jdonn yet again. I see no need to make an extremely light balance when I have 3 hearts. Partner will play me for a much better hand.

[mike777]

"my thoughts are more along the lines of what is this problem doing here? (Phil, say it ain't so!)"


This was the last hand of the match and of course decided the match. I thought it was an "interesting hand."

I am glad to see wide and strong viewpoints on both sides. I learn from that.

[pclayton]

jdonn, on May 2 2006, 02:22 PM, said:

I can't believe people are bidding 3♦, my thoughts are more along the lines of what is this problem doing here? (Phil, say it ain't so!)

There is a range of hands for partner (lets say 13-14) where you generally want to be in 3NT, but he will bid 3NT (or 3♥ to get you to bid it) with a much lower range, something like 9+. You will probably get to about 4 or 5 bad 3NTs when you had a plus on defense for every good 3NT, and often will be doubled in those cases as the partner of the 2♥ bidder may have a fair hand.

Keep in mind also that they are vul, meaning the 2♥ opener is on a decent hand, and that you are probably getting them for 200 undoubled anyway when you have game, or maybe 300. 5 or 6 (or 3) imps is hardly enough upside to make this overbid.

Yeah its so. I don't feel too strongly about this one and could be convinced otherwise.

But I keep looking at that trick source, and it feels right to compete at these colors.

OK, so we go down (sometimes a few, and sometimes cracked) in 3N. They are vul and (hopefully) understand the benefits of bidding thin games. If my RHO has the kind of hand to whack 3N, we more than likely hear some forward movement over 2♥ instead of a pass. I suppose it depends on the tendencies of my LHO, but I'm not holding any intermediates in the suit, and if hearts are 6=3=1=3 around the table, there's a lot of holdings where they are picking up the suit for one loser.

I don't think an acceptable dummy for 3♦ is too much to ask, and I'm not terribly ashamed about putting this one down for 3N.

But I'll listen to others.

[whereagles]

jdonn, what's the problem of bidding 3♦? The diamond suit is robust. It's not like you're bidding it on KJxxx or something

Besides, there's only one hint at passing, and that is the heart length. Had we had Ax of hearts and a club more, 3♦ would have been completely clear-cut to me.

[hatchett]

Quote

what's the problem of bidding 3♦? The diamond suit is robust. It's not like you're bidding it on KJxxx or something

Problems are

Partner might bid 3NT and RHO will be in a good position to double if that's the right action
Even if 3NT is making, 2H rates to be a few off vulnerable so the upside is limited
A fair amount of the time that 3D is making partner will bid on taking you to a minus position

Quote

Besides, there's only one hint at passing, and that is the heart length. Had we had Ax of hearts and a club more, 3♦ would have been completely clear-cut to me.

with that shape double would be clear-cut for me.

[Free]

I'm a 3♦ bidder, but it depends on who I'm playing with. With f2f p, I'd bid 3♦ in a nanosecond, because we have the agreement that 4th seat bids can be weaker than direct seat. So he won't expect that much of me anyway.

Only 1 question remains here: are they going to make 2♥ or not? ♥ will split 3-3 or 3-2 with the Q onside, so I guess they'll make it. That's why I'll bid...

[Blofeld]

I'm going to pass.

If we're missing game this should be going off, and I'm worried that bidding will turn a positive into a negative, or a small negative into a big negative.

[hatchett]

Quote

Only 1 question remains here: are they going to make 2♥ or not? ♥ will split 3-3 or 3-2 with the Q onside, so I guess they'll make it. That's why I'll bid...

I think you'll find the QH is offside

[jdonn]

whereagles, on May 3 2006, 03:42 AM, said:

jdonn, what's the problem of bidding 3♦? The diamond suit is robust. It's not like you're bidding it on KJxxx or something

Besides, there's only one hint at passing, and that is the heart length. Had we had Ax of hearts and a club more, 3♦ would have been completely clear-cut to me.

There is another hint at passing. Your hand isn't good!

[inquiry]

Pass......

[whereagles]

jdonn, on May 3 2006, 04:10 PM, said:

There is another hint at passing. Your hand isn't good!

What do you mean it's not good? I think it is.

Guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on our standards for balancing bids

[mike777]

Bob Hamman decided to bid 3D, I am not sure if that means his style is to get in and bid almost all balanced 11 hcp over preempts or just in the balance seat? It is the type of situation I wish we could hear more on the thought process and decision making.

[winkle]

mike777, on May 3 2006, 12:14 PM, said:

Bob Hamman decided to bid 3D, I am not sure if that means his style is to get in and bid almost all balanced 11 hcp over preempts or just in the balance seat? It is the type of situation I wish we could hear more on the thought process and decision making.

How did this decide the match? Nickell won their round-of-16 match by 64. Do you mean the round of 8?

[mike777]

ya maybe it was the round of 8