[skilldave]

I assume people know what i mean by counting the hand. e.g. counting how many cards are out in each suit, and the likely shapes of the opponents.

What are other people's methods for doing it, i.e. thought processes as you do it as I find the way I do it is really inefficient and am often getting all the numbers jumbled in my head and having to do lots of retracking. Haven't seen any books ever on the best way to do it, and have relied on my own methods which don't seem very good.

Also in defence, how do you go about counting the hand efficiently.

Hope this makes sense. Will clarify further if it doesn't. cheers

[Free]

I only count distributions. The rest is matter of my short term memory which in my case is almost photographic.

I used to count "1st trick everyone followed, 2nd trick rho discarded something, I and dummy have 4 cards left in the suit, so lho still has 2 cards in that suit" but that's a pure waste of energy! Then I read a book where they said it's easier to count distributions. In your own hand you can usually see what suits were played how many times, and you can place cards in opponent's hands. This makes it quite easy to make a full picture of all 4 hands.
Counting HCP is the first thing I always do, but it's more important in defense most of the time. Then you know what honours your partner can have, and you don't have to hope for the 'impossible'.

[skilldave]

So you work out the initial distribution only? so in the end position, you use your short term memory to remember how many rounds of the suits you've played?Agree that method which you described is a waste of energy.

Thanks for initial post. more ideas would be great to get a feel for different ways to go about it.

[kenberg]

Sometimes it's tough, sometimes I get it wrong, but I have found the following useful: When the dummy goes down I see if I can make a pretty good bet about one suit right away. Especially as defender, this is often possble and often lets the rest of the pieces fall into place. For example, the dummy comes down I have three hearts, dummy has three hearts, I ask myself who could have four. If the answer isn't apparent I may look at the spades and try the same sort of thinking. I guess I am saying I put more effort earlier into anticipating the count rather than trying to keep track as it goes. Of course sometimes you have to revise as someone shows out but often the shape will agree with expectations. "What's the count" goes hand in hand with "what's the plan". Most declarers most of the time play the hand in a pretty straightforward way and you can check the plan against your inferences, or use it to choose between a couple of possible shapes.

At any rate, much of my counting during the play is of the sort "yep, as expected" or "oops, have to revise my opinion" rather than an accounting process. I think it is both easier and more useful that way.

Ken

[inquiry]

See this thread http://forums.bridgebase.com/index.php?sho...indpost&p=14892 which has, among other, advice from Fred Gitelman on this subject. Also, in that thread I gave a link to other threads on the topic and links to web pages with memory helping software.

[mikeh]

inquiry, on Apr 19 2006, 07:42 PM, said:

See this thread http://forums.bridgebase.com/index.php?sho...indpost&p=14892 which has, among other, advice from Fred Gitelman on this subject. Also,  in that thread I gave a link to other threads on the topic and links to web pages with memory helping software.

Good advice.

BTW, for what little it is worth, I remember reading, many years ago, that experts counted patterns.. ie visualized 4432, 5422 etc. I have never done that (and yet I claim to be an expert ). Why, I don't know... but I used to spend hours learning to count... to remember every card played and to THINK hard during every hand.

I do have a very good short term memory (for some things) and that probably helps

You might want to ask your partner to play frequent count signals for a couple of months... you will become easy to play against (I love playing defenders who give honest and frequent count) but counting the hand will become easier... and once mastered, change signalling methods.

As for an 'easy way': there is no such thing: bridge is a game that requires hard work if you want to become good at it: don't give up.. eventually you will suddenly realize that you are counting almost without conscious effort.. but you need to build the correct pathways in the brain first.. and that requires effort.

[jdeegan]

Your question is perfect. Think of yourself as a mental athlete, and counting hands as a mental skill that you must develop the same way as a physical skill, e.g. golf or skiing. In the beginning it is very hard since you are using your normal memory methods to consciously keep track of the cards. Gradually, it begins to become something different (you may go through a period where you make errors, as in 14 card hands and suits etc.). Eventually, it becomes something that you record automatically as the play unfolds, but don't really recognize consciously unless you need it. Lay off bridge for even a week or so and this ability begins to fade.

How do you get to Carnegie Hall? Practice, my boy, practice.

[barmar]

I also usually try to keep track of patterns. I'll start with clues from the bidding, imagining the most likely hand shape consistent with an opponent's calls. If someone hasn't bid, I'll start by assuming flat shape, and shortness in a suit their partner has bid (since they didn't raise). Whenever someone shows out or gives count, I'll revise my mental picture.

[FrancesHinden]

It's really just practice, I'm afraid. Eventually you get to the point where you remember every card played, and who played it when.

When I taught near-beginners, I used to make them think with the following exercises, which are good ways to get your mind on the cards:

i) At trick 1 as declarer, particularly in a NT contract, work out what you know about the suit that's been led. If they play 4th highest you can sometimes deduce the entire layout of the suit at trick 1.

ii) At the end of the hand, ask yourself (in ascending order of difficulty)
- What was my hand? (including all the pips)
- What was in dummy? (including all the pips)
- What was in the other two hands?

iii) After you've played a session, go through your scorecard and see how many of the hands you can reconstruct, including how the play went.

iv) Play barbu (see e.g. www.barbu.co.uk). This is very good practice for keeping track of what's been played, because all the pips are immensely important - much more so than is often the case in bridge. Also, there's no dummy, so you have to follow all the hands. Also, it's often good fun.

[pigpenz]

I remember Mike Albert when he started playing with Soloway in 1980 he counted out suits as he went along out loud, they say sound helps the memory process....and I have seen other good students do this when they first started....it just becomes habit after awhile

[kenberg]

pigpenz, on Apr 24 2006, 09:44 PM, said:

I remember Mike Albert when he started playing with Soloway in 1980 he counted out suits as he went along out loud, they say sound helps the memory process....and I have seen other good students do this when they first started....it just becomes habit after awhile

And it probably plays havoc with the memory process of others at the table. Maybe I'll try it. It's hard to imagine opponents tolerating this or directors allowing it.

[pigpenz]

kenberg, on Apr 25 2006, 09:16 AM, said:

pigpenz, on Apr 24 2006, 09:44 PM, said:

I remember Mike Albert when he started playing with Soloway in 1980 he counted out suits as he went along out loud, they say sound helps the memory process....and I have seen other good students do this when they first started....it just becomes habit after awhile

And it probably plays havoc with the memory process of others at the table. Maybe I'll try it. It's hard to imagine opponents tolerating this or directors allowing it.

no not at all, you dont have to yell it out just sort of talk to yourself, sort of like
whispering to yourself.

[Richardrls]

Some points that you might want to consider:
1. hand counting starts with the first bid and continues with each bid. With enough bidding, much of the counting is done even before the dummy hits the table.

2. To what end are you counting? The counting needs differ between the defender and the Declarer.

3. Often a complete count of the hand is really wasted effort. If the Declarer is doing proper planning before playing to the opening lead, many of the cards and in fact one or more of the suits need not even be addressed in the counting process. If the Defender is doing the correct type of leading, after considering the nature of the contract he is trying to defend, again many of the cards in the hand may in fact not even be of any interest in the defense. My point is that a complete analysis of the location of 52 cards is rarely of interest to the bridge player.