[kgr]

2D = 6 card M and weak OR 22/23 pts
You agreed:
2D-(2M)-DBL: DBL is takeout, partner will pass if weak M - bid M' if weak M'
How would you play DBL by opener (I have added my thoughts):
2D-(2M)-P-(P)-DBL
2D-(DBL)-P-(2M)-DBL
Probably strong as he would not have a reason to DBL otherwise? Takeout or penalty?
And what about:
2D-(DBL)-P-(4M)-DBL: I would think Penatly. opener has no reason to dbl for take out here?
2D-(DBL)-2H-(4S)-DBL: I would think Penatly. opener has no reason to dbl for take out here?
2D-(DBL)-P-(4M)-P-(P)-DBL: This could still be takeout with extra short M (therfor first passed) and extra long M'. Or better play it as penalty on the 4 level?
..and:
2D-(DBL)-2S-(4S)-DBL: 2S shows tolerance for 3H if weak 6card H. Her double should clearly be penalty?

[kgr]

Scoring: MP

---

Bidding:
2D Multi-(DBL)-2H-(4S)
Pass-(Pas)-5H-All pass
===
2D: Multi - Weak 6cM or 22/23 pts
DBL: not allerted, but afterwards it appeared to be Diamonds
2H: clearly wrong. 2S would show hearts. would you Pass or bid 2S?
Pass of 4S by opener: Should opener DBL here?
5H: That should be ok if partner has weak 6 card H
How should N/S bidding have gone?

[Free]

2♥ should be natural. With p/c hands you should pass or rdbl, whatever you like best.

With f2f partner I have a very simple rule for situations like the 5-level decision: Double in front of the suit is takeout (unless it can't be takeout ofcourse), Double behind the suit is penalty. So here, South's double would be penalty, but North can still easily double, and partner can sit on it with ♠ or bid 5♥ or a side minor...

[FrancesHinden]

Free, on Apr 27 2006, 01:07 PM, said:

2♥ should be natural. With p/c hands you should pass or rdbl, whatever you like best.

That's one way of playing, but there's no 'should' about it. Here's another way:
- Any bid of a major up to and including 4H is pass-or-correct
- Pass shows diamonds and interest in playing there
- Redouble shows your own suit and asks partner to bid 2H

that's what I play, but there's nothing 'should' about that either.

Certainly I've seen hands written up from major championships where the pair are not totally certain about their agreements.

[inquiry]

I think,

2♦ - (DBL) - RDL, should be ♦'s and values. Pass might work out too, but redbl here I like as to play.

This means, 2♦ - (DBL) - Pass I prefer to play as ♦ but not a demand that partner pass. And other than that, over the dbl the full multi responding system is on as if no double. So, for example on the shown hand, I would have bid 2♠ over 2♦ to play if partner has a weak two in spades. I would never bid 2♥ because if partner happened to have ♥'s I want to still be bidding!!

If they overcall 2♥ or 2♠, I like DBL for "TAKEOUT". Should they have bid my partners six card suit, well, he passes the takeout double. I can have three cards in the other major, or in a pinch, a doubleton honor. There is no need for me to "guess" which suit is his.

Over higher level doubles, the double becomes penalty oriented.

[kgr]

inquiry, on Apr 27 2006, 03:19 PM, said:

2♦ - (DBL) - RDL, should be ♦'s and values. Pass might work out too, but redbl here I like as to play.

Seems ok.

Quote

This means, 2♦ - (DBL) - Pass I prefer to play as ♦ but not a demand that partner pass. And other than that, over the dbl the full multi responding system is on as if no double.

Until now I prefered pass = I don't have support for both Majors. F.i. 3=1=x=x. But probably your definition is better.

Quote

So, for example on the shown hand, I would have bid 2♠ over 2♦ to play if partner has a weak two in spades. I would never bid 2♥ because if partner happened to have ♥'s I want to still be bidding!!

Agree that 2S is the best bid here.
Now if East bids 3S after partner would have bid 2S (and showed support for 3H or 4H), what would DBL by South show? That is then probably penalty: 6 card S or strong (strong being less likely)?

Quote

If they overcall 2♥ or 2♠, I like DBL for "TAKEOUT". Should they have bid my partners six card suit, well, he passes the takeout double. I can have three cards in the other major, or in a pinch, a doubleton honor.  There is no need for me to "guess" which suit is his.

That is what we play.

Quote

Over higher level doubles, the double becomes penalty oriented.

Is that over 3 or 4M? This probably also depends on the bidding?
f.i.
2D-(4H)-X
2D-(X)-P-(4H)-P-(P)-X
Both penalty?

[inquiry]

kgr, on Apr 27 2006, 09:21 AM, said:

Agree that 2S is the best bid here.
Now if East bids 3S after partner would have bid 2S (and showed support for 3H or 4H), what would DBL by South show? That is then probably penalty: 6 card S or strong (strong being less likely)?

So bidding was...
2♦-DBL-2{sp]*-3♠
DBL?

Where 2♠ was "pass-correct" showing, in theory, interest in high level ♥ contract or bail out in ♠s at the two level. Dbl of 3♠ can not show ♥'s (Pass will show that). So the only "logical" meaning of dble of 3♠ is penalty oriented. It is hard to imagine south can have bal 22-23 with WEST, NORTH, and EAST all showing values, so I suspect this shows a maximum weak two in ♠ and thinking the values partner expressed in ♥ for his 2♠ bid are enough to defeat whereever they run.

kgr @ Apr 27 2006, on 09:21 AM, said:

inquiry @ Apr 27 2006, on 03:19 PM, said:

Over higher level doubles, the double becomes penalty oriented.

Is that over 3 or 4M? This probably also depends on the bidding?
f.i.
2D-(4H)-X
2D-(X)-P-(4H)-P-(P)-X
Both penalty?

2D-(4H)-X <<--- I play this as penalty. This is clear from my statement that over "higher level doubles" the doubles are penalty.

2D-(X)-P-(4H)-P-(P)-X <<-- It is STILL penatly oriented, but exactly what he has will be somewhat unusual for a different reason. The pass of 2♦X suggested a willingness to play in 2♦ but not a good hand. And we can figure opener does not have teh balanced 22-23 hand as he would no doubt double 4♥ himself. Nor can the 4♥ bidder have a heart stack with marginal ♦'s for then, as we saw about, 2♠ would have been the bid rather than pass (or 2♥). Nor can he have a few spades and a few hearts, as his bid would have been 2♥ over 2♦-X. So we can reconstruct his hand. He has probably five/six diamonds behind the diamond bidder, and in this case probably two ♥ tricks.