[awm]

It seems to me that it would be nice to be able to rebid 1♠ after 1m-1♥ when holding four spades, then subsequently correct 1nt to 2♥. This would be convenient, because 2♥ will often play better than 1nt on these hands (especially when responder has five). However, in standard bidding the sequence 1m-1♥-1♠-1NT-2♥ shows extras, which is necessary because otherwise there is no way to bid these hands (strong three card raises are generally hard to show).

However, the following auction seems to be almost never used:

1♣ - 1♥
1♠ - 1NT
2♦

In principle the natural meaning of this sequence seems to be 4-0-4-5 shape exactly with extra values. But I certainly can't remember the last time this auction came up for me. On the other hand, 4324 hands in the 12-14 hcp range seem to come up relatively frequently. So my suggestion is to use this 2♦ bid to show either a strong 4-0-4-5 or a strong three-card heart raise (something like 4-3-1-5). In any case this shows reverse values, something like 16-18 points given the failure to game force at opener's second turn. Responder now can bid 2♥ with a minimum, which opener can pass with the 4-3-1-5 pattern (note responder pretty much never has more than five hearts on this auction, so you're not playing 2♥ when opener is 4045). Other bids by responder would be game forcing and letting opener complete the hand description. This seems to lose very little, and the gain is that 1♣-1♥-1♠-1NT-2♥ no longer needs to show extra values.

The situation is a bit more annoying after a 1♦ opening, but the following auction is also fairly unusual:

1♦ - 1♥
1♠ - 1NT
2♣

In principle this shows 4144 or 4054 distribution. I can only think of one time that this auction has been bid at my table in the last couple years, and on that sequence I doubled the opponents 2♣ call and it went for 500 (suits breaking badly) opposite no game. I suspect that with a minimum 4144 hand it is usually right to pass the 1NT call rather than improve the contract via the 2♣ bid. So it makes sense to consider that 2♣ here suggests extra values. It then becomes reasonable to use 2♣ as a two-way bid: extra values with either a three-card raise of hearts or 4144/4054 shape. Responder bids 2♦ on a minimum which prefers diamonds to clubs, which opener can pass (4144/4054) or correct to hearts (4351 with extras). Responder can bid 2♥ to show a minimum preferring a black suit to diamonds (typical 3424 or 2524) which opener passes with the three-card heart raise or corrects to spades (4144/4054). Finally responder can bid 2♠ to show a game-going hand opposite opener's extras and ask for further description.

Anyways I'm curious what people think about this stuff. Obviously this is a rare auction and might be a lot to remember, but the problem of 1m-1♥ with opener having 4♠+3♥+min seems to be surprisingly frequent in my bridge games recently.

[han]

We have had a few discussions here about what one should do with a minimum 4-3-2-4 or 4-3-1-5. Although most were in favor of raising immediately, I think everybody realises that this works out badly on some hands (especially at MPs).

I haven't seen your idea before and it is certainly not for everybody. I think that it is a good suggestion though (especially after a 1C opening). I would make one change: I'd play that 2H shows the good raise and 2D shows either a strong 4-0-4-5 or the like or a minimal hand that wants to drop in 2H. Now responder can always bid 2H and opener can pass with 4-3-2-4 and bid 2S with 4-0-4-5 (and perhaps 3C with a strong 4-0-3-6).

I'm not sure if this is worth the trouble after a 1D opening. Here it will be more likely that responder wants to pass 2C, so it is not clear to me that the gains outweigh the costs.

[Double !]

FWIW
I kinda like this 2D idea. I would like some clarification regarding the level to which it forces the partnership.

I think I would prefer the rebid structure that Adam proposed.
(I preface this with stating that I try to avoid raising 1m-1M to 2M without 4-card support if there is a viable alternative available. This is not due to inflexibility, but rather to trying to make decision-making for me, personally, a little easier in competitive situations. I know that many might not agree with me and to not agree is really OK. To raise immediately or not is also an issue for partnership agreement: this is just my personal preference. It helps me to cut down on errors. Heaven knows that I need all the help that I can get.)

Think of responder's rebids over 2D: they become more comfortable if he knows that partner has some form of extra values opposite him. Otherwise, what does responder do with a minimum flattish hand? Bid 2H with 4-card suit hoping that partner had a good hand with delayed support? I would rather have the 2H rebid show 5 hearts, strength limited by the 1NT rebid, and have the sequence 1m-1H-1S-1N-2H shows the mini 3-card support hand that didn't wish to rule out a possible spade fit. Responder's first obligation in most cases will likely be to show 5 hearts: it's safer to bid more knowing that P has extra values. And, don't forget that, in this era of a lot of people playing Walsh style, in the end it might turn out that 1NT was the correct contract even with your 4315 because he had by-passed some decent diamonds in order to bid the major first.!!!

Best Wishes to all

DHL

[whereagles]

hum.. isn't this called "4th suit forcing"?

[luke warm]

whereagles, on Apr 22 2006, 03:37 AM, said:

hum.. isn't this called "4th suit forcing"?

no

[pclayton]

I think you might be on to something here, especially if you choose not raise immediately with a 4=3=1=5 or 4=3=5=1 (which I am NOT convinced is a great idea).

The 4th suit could be an amorphous forcing call, and 2M the minimum 3 card delayed raise. Eagles; it differs in context from a typical 4sf auction; typically the 4th suit in these sequences is ostensibly natural.

I don't know that you need a lot of special followups after the 4th suit here; other than that its a forcing call.

[jdonn]

I don't think the second auction (1♦ 1♥ 1♠ 1NT 2♣) is uncommon at all, and I always do it on 4144. Sure sometimes partner is 3532 or something and you stick yourself in a 4-3 fit, but there is so much upside. After all partner could be 5-5 in hearts and clubs, or even 4-6 presuming you don't have some way for him to sign off in clubs there. It could even be a slam hand on perfect fits when partner has long clubs and bad hearts and you have good controls

KQxx
x
Axxx
Axxx

Ax
xxxx
x
Kxxxxx

or something. Slam may be quite unlikely, but I don't think game is so unlikely since responder can have long clubs, and excellent club partscores will be frequent. I just think in general you can't risk playing 1NT there.

So I sort of like your idea on the first auction after the 1♣ opening where the 2♦ bid shows extras anyway and is infrequent, but a lot less on this auction. It will confuse these auctions when opener has these three suited minimums, and prevents responder from simply passing the 2♣ bid. I think it's one of those ideas (I've had many myself) that seem good 'on paper' but would lead to unforeseen problems in practice.