[bridgeboy]

Teams, All Vul,

you hold:

QTxx
xx
xx
K8xxx


Partner opened 1C (may be 2), you respond 1S and now partner reverse 2H, your bid?

Do you agree with 1S?

Thanks all...

[Free]

Yes I agree with 1♠, you may have game when partner is max with double fit.

Now I'll bid 3♣ GF, however, is there any way to show a game invite?

[Miron]

1♠ sure. Unless you play 1♣-2NT as weak on clubs - as I do, in that case is 2NT beter. This hand is imho not suitable for 3♣ with 4 spades (I play 2NT as 3-6 with 5♣).

I would bid 2NT and wait. If partner says 3♣, I'll pass. If not (and he is allowed to say more then 3♣, I will bid 5♣).

[whereagles]

Since Lebenshol is available, that must surely be the bid

[Blofeld]

With such a good fit I can't bring myself to lebensohl into 3♣. But I think GFing is a little rich, mostly because I'm worried about landing in 6♣ when we should be in 5. So I'll try the immediate invitational 4♣, and be glad that we have this option.

[Free]

Here's a question: what is the difference between 4♣ and 2NT followed by 4♣?

[mike777]

Leb. 2nt seems clear, if partner cannot break the relay I will pass.

This auction shows exactly 4 spades, 4-5 clubs and minimum response, just what I got.

[Blofeld]

mike777, on Apr 23 2006, 10:08 AM, said:

This auction shows exactly 4 spades, 4-5 clubs and minimum response, just what I got.

It certainly doesn't show 4-5 clubs!

Partner has shown 5+ clubs. On minimum hands I'd often expect this bid to be made with 3 clubs, and sometimes with 2 (e.g. 4342 shape).

[Double !]

1) YES I fully agree with the 1S response

2) Whether playing leb/ reverses or structured reverses, my next bid is 2NT. Partner PROMISES at least one more bid when he/she reverses. My follow-up bid will depend upon which system of responses to reverses we are playing. With the 5-card club support, my hand is rather good for NT, even from my side should P hold 1435 distro or similar ilk.

DHL

[bid_em_up]

Double !, on Apr 23 2006, 12:00 PM, said:

1)  YES  I fully agree with the 1S response

2)  Whether playing leb/ reverses or structured reverses, my next bid is 2NT.  Partner PROMISES at least one more bid when he/she reverses.  My follow-up bid will depend upon which system of responses to reverses we are playing.  With the 5-card club support, my hand is rather good for NT, even from my side should P hold 1435 distro or similar ilk.

DHL

How is partner taking another call once you relay to 3C (via 2N) and then pass?

While its clear if partner breaks the relay, you are bidding 5C at least, the question appears to be, what do you intend to do if partner simply bids 3C as instructed?

I think the 1S bid is ok, but would not find too much fault with an inital pass or an initial 3C bid either.

After bidding 1S and the reverse, I think that 2N (leb) then raising 3C to 4C should describe my hand fairly accurately (spade values, good club fit, no diamond stop). I could have simply bid 3C direct or new suit with slam ambitions, and 5C with a hand that is willing to play game in clubs.

I believe that passing the 3C leb relay is a very unilateral decision. I didnt vote, because I was not given the option of raising 3C to 4C after leb relay.

As always, jmoo.

[luis]

2NT and follow 3♣ with 4♣ showing a bad hand with long clubs in support.

[mike777]

What are the Leb bidders expecting partner to rebid with:
x...AKxx...AJx....AOJxx

3nt or 3c?

IMHO...It just seems to me any hand partner rebids 3clubs on will be high enough most of the time, otherwise P will break the relay and we will get to some game. My guess is leb=3c=4c will get us too high more often then a making game in 5C. In any case raising 3c to 4c after Leb is very close.

[P_Marlowe]

2NT, followed by passing 3C,
anything else is just ..., sry.

1S was ok, espesially since you
have a fit, but the fit was already
incorporated into 1S,
with 1S you have bid the values of
your hand.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[bid_em_up]

mike777, on Apr 23 2006, 01:18 PM, said:

My guess is leb=3c=4c will get us too high more often then a making game in 5C.

I dont think so, try constructing a few possible hands where 4C does not have play when partner actually has a reverse (its almost impossible, i think).

x AQxx Axx AQJxx? Nope, 4C makes, 5 is on hrt finesse.
KJx AQxx x AQJxx? 5C again on heart finesse or misdefense, 4S may have play.
xx AKxx Kx AQJxx? 4C only goes minus if diamond A offside.
Kx AQxx Qx AQJxx? 4C only depends on heart finesse, not unreasonable.
Ax KQxx AQ QJxxx? partner may well have rebid 2N on this hand and 4C still has least 50% play.

or give partner a few other reverses:

AKx AJxx x AJxxx 5C cold.
Kx AKxx Ax AJxxx 5C cold.
x AKxx AQx AJxxx 5C cold, 6 on diamond finesse (assuming clubs break or pd finds Q), and I am not certain if partner will break the 3C relay holding this hand (I wouldnt).

and so on....

overall the few -50/100's you will incur when partner passes 4C will be more than offset when you gain 400/600, imo. Now if you are including hands where partner raises 4C to 5C and goes down one, that is slightly different story, but overall they will be offset. (it has to be wrong at almost 2-1 ratio for it to lose in the long run, i think).

This was an IMP question, wasnt it? Sorry Mike, but I believe you should make one more attempt to reach the vul game, for a variety of reasons. You bid it, it makes. Other table doesnt bid it, win 10. Dont bid it, other table does, it makes, lose 10. Both tables bid it, it makes/goes down, push. You dont bid it, other table does, you make 4 while other table goes down only 1. You win 6.

Which category would you rather be in? The win 10 or push, or the win 6, lose 10? Team strategy almost requires the former, knowing that the pair at the other table should be striving to bid the vulnerable game as well. Plus, you dont have to explain to teammates why you are -10 on this board. They are more likely to forgive you for bidding the vulnerable game, and going -1 than they are to be happy with -10 because you didnt want to invite.

(At matchpoints, I might agree with you and pass, simply because thats what the field will most likely do).

[Blofeld]

xx AKQJ KQ QJxxx is about the only hand I can construct for partner where 4♣ has no realistic play, and then there's a decent chance partner would have rebid 2NT.

I would like to know the difference between an immediate 4♣ and leb then 4♣, though.

[Chamaco]

mike777, on Apr 23 2006, 06:18 PM, said:

What are the Leb bidders expecting partner to rebid with:
x...AKxx...AJx....AOJxx

3nt or 3c?

With this hand, I would not bid either between 3NT and 3C; I'd bid 3D, showing a max reverse, and being the most descriptive bid showing my fragment.

[han]

Agree with 2NT followed by 4C. This should show an invitational hand, and I think that a direct 4C should show good support and slam interest. Playing 4C directly as invitational seems wasteful to me.

[mike777]

OK Ok, I guess many think partner will be able to discern when to bid again over 4clubs on that auction. Assuming pard has some hand type that does not break the relay.

I just think it is close enough that I would pass 3Clubs.

[Double !]

ever get the feeling that some conventions or treatments work better for some suits than for others?

This hand is making me wonder whether or not, if playing leb over reverses, the meanings of 3C and 2nt should be reversed. 2NT followed by 3 clubs is stronger than 3 clubs, opener's suit.

Just a thought.

DHL

[Blofeld]

Double !, on Apr 23 2006, 06:51 PM, said:

This hand is making me wonder whether or not, if playing leb over reverses, the meanings of 3C and 2nt should be reversed. 2NT followed by 3 clubs is stronger than 3 clubs, opener's suit.

The problem with this is that unless someone doubles, you never get to bid 2NT and then 3♣. At best you can bid 2NT and then pass 3♣ ... which doesn't work very well as an auction showing a strong hand.