[FrancesHinden]

mikeh, on Apr 6 2006, 04:36 PM, said:

In closing: 5♠ is probably the type of call that you should avoid, but that you should say to partner, after the hand (and the session): I was thinking of 5♠ on this board: would that have described my hand for you?

Quite. I didn't bid 5♠ at the table. At the table I raised 3NT to 6NT which I thought was going to be the best slam : the state of the match (a huge amount up) and form of scoring (aggregate) meant that we were not going to bid any grand slams.

In fact, I had a 5 part problem: I didn't know whether it was right to play in spades or NT at the 6 level, or hearts, spades or NT at the 7-level.

A team-mate suggested the 4D-followed-by-5S route saying it was 'obvious' it must mean the hand I had: namely extremely good spades, happy to play a slam, looking for the best denomination:

AKQ10xx
10x
Kx
10xx

As you can see, 6S is the best spot. 6NT made (it would have gone off on a low diamond lead away from the ace, but no-one would find that on our auction).

If you, as opener, had held x AKQxxx Qxx AKx then 6NT is right. I couldn't quite construct a hand where 6H was the best spot, but it's easy to write down hands where 7H just needs hearts 3-2 (though in general they wouldn't sign off over 4D).

(At the other table they played in 4H+3 after opening an Acol 2H.)

[Impact]

1) in response toMikeH who posited a S suit headed by QT, surely the bid over 4H was 5H- or 5D if that was clearly another cue...;

2) Notwithstanding the apparent agreement of H by 4D under the methods, it is not clear what alternatives responder possessed with a GF ss in S - and perforce he may have been forced to make a cue intending to convert H to S....

3) Whatever it is that partner wants - you have it: full control of C and useful S, so you must help, and I think 6C is the obvious bid (but query whether 5NT is the "master" bid but at this stage you presumably place partner with the DA - whereas if the actual hand was contemplated maybe you had to consider the possibility that your -opener's hand could have had the DA instead of CK, but then presumably you would not rebid 4H with that hand either over 4D?)

4) seeing the actual hand Frances held highlights a potential disadvantage to the standard structure- wrongsiding the contract, which can amount to luck in almost any system....

[cherdano]

Well at least my 6♠ "cue" bid would have worked out...

[kenrexford]

I am still not sure of the methods, but I seem to be hearing that 4S would be a cuebid. Assuming this, 4D established a heart fit, which you have, and showed a second-round or better diamond control, which you have. After 4H, 4S would show serious slam interest, obviously, with two top spades, right? This cannot logically be passable.

This course allows, in many auctions (e.g., a club cuebid from partner), a rebid of 5S spades at this point, to show solid spades as well. All your honors would be on the table.

Could partner then bid 5NT as a choice-of-slams bid?

In practice, however, your Kx in diamonds seems to scream for right-siding the contract. I see the problem -- 3NT wrong-sided notrumps. So, you are real concerned about trying to get to 6S, or in finding a diamond Queen (or Ace). If this is the problem, and a practical solution is sought, perhaps the best course is not to muddy the waters by agreeing hearts.

Your partner has shown long hearts, and you have shown one suit. So, after 3NT, why not just jump to 5NT, choice? This seems to scream that you want to play a slam but have a problem suggesting spades as better (a Kx). Partner, with a fitting hand, can bid 6S.

The problem I see with the late 5S call to suggest strain is that you abandoned this alternative early at 4D. You should not have the ability to show the same hand with two different auctions. 4D established agreement. An immediate 5NT does not. Thus, I'd suggest 5NT directly as the solution.

As an aside, on the comment about bidding your hand and not partner's (from hotshot), the empathetic splinter describes one's hand. It shows concentrated values outside of the suit. How is that bidding partner's hand??? Just like any other call, you are describing your hand and asking partner if that information helps him.

[whereagles]

Come to think of it.. there is a guideline for situations like this: if an undiscussed bid comes up, it is NATURAL (e.g. it's bridge!). In this context, where the fit is known, if it's natural it should show good spades and a willingness to play 7.

But of course pards have a way to come up with something else than the expected

[FrancesHinden]

kenrexford, on Apr 7 2006, 03:06 AM, said:

Your partner has shown long hearts, and you have shown one suit. So, after 3NT, why not just jump to 5NT, choice? This seems to scream that you want to play a slam but have a problem suggesting spades as better (a Kx). Partner, with a fitting hand, can bid 6S.

Simple answer: because we wouldn't play it as 'choice' - we would play it is forcing a to a small slam, inviting 7 if partner has an extra trick (e.g. a 7th heart).

[kenrexford]

This, then, seems to be a bizarre question, ultimately. What does a bid mean, in the context of undisclosed possible other options, including undisclosed prior auctiom options.

I suppose it boils down to agreements. Having none on point, 5S is meaningless.