[Badmonster]

In other threads the idea of passing because you like the defensive qualities of your hand has come up. I want to learn more about evaluating and reevaluating the defensive vs offensive qualities of hands. Where to start? What should I read? Whom should I talk to? What questions should I ask?

I know it's kind of a vague question.

[inquiry]

Badmonster, on Mar 29 2006, 10:53 AM, said:

In other threads the idea of passing because you like the defensive qualities of your hand has come up. I want to learn more about evaluating and reevaluating the defensive vs offensive qualities of hands. Where to start? What should I read? Whom should I talk to? What questions should I ask?

I know it's kind of a vague question.

The concept is the offensive to defensive ratio of a hand. To summarize, some honors (holdings) are good for offense (Queens and jacks in your long suits, where they will help win tricks if you play in your trump suits) and some are good on defenese (Queens and jacks in their suits). This is a huge oversimplification, but you get the idea... for example Jx in their suit or a side suit might set up the Qxx in partners hand for a defensive trick, whereas you could ruff partners third in that suit anyway if it was played in your suit.

A good place to go is to Robson/Segal classic book "parntership bidding at bridge" (and they are your countrymen if I am not mistaken). Essentially the entire book deals with ODR (offensvie to Defensive ratio) and modifying your bidding to take ODR into account.

[keylime]

The more queens and jacks I hold, the more I wish to defend. Likewise, aces and kings make me want to bid on.

Tenaces are very important in defense - if you hold length in their suits, pard likely may have shortness. Thusly KJTx is not a great holding for pard, but for defense it's lethal. Hence the splinter bid's effectiveness in determining wasted values for example.

As mentioned, ODR is a great concept. I tho think for beg/int/adv players that looking at where your points are, is a reasonable approximation.

[luis]

keylime, on Mar 29 2006, 04:20 PM, said:

The more queens and jacks I hold, the more I wish to defend. Likewise, aces and kings make me want to bid on.

Tenaces are very important in defense - if you hold length in their suits, pard likely may have shortness. Thusly KJTx is not a great holding for pard, but for defense it's lethal. Hence the splinter bid's effectiveness in determining wasted values for example.

As mentioned, ODR is a great concept. I tho think for beg/int/adv players that looking at where your points are, is a reasonable approximation.

It is exactly the opposite,

Queens and jacks are offensive values, Aces and kings are defensive values.

If you have

QJTxxx in a suit
If you play the hand you have 4 tricks and 2 losers in the suit
If they play the hand you have 0 defensive tricks (the queen never scores)

But when you have
AKxxxx in a suit
If you play the hand you can make 4 or 5 tricks in the suit and you have 1, 2 or 3 losers
If they play the hand you have 1 or 2 defensive tricks (probably 2)

Aces and Kings will take tricks in offense AND defense while jacks and queens in your suits only win tricks if you play the hand.

In your long suits:
ACE / KINGS = defensive
QUEENs/JACKS = offensive

In your short suits:
ACE / Kings = neutral
Queen / Jacks = defensive

That is a very simplistic summary of course.

[Badmonster]

Thanks you all. I've downloaded Robson/Segal's "Partnership Bidding in Bridge" and looking forward to delving in.

[han]

That's a great book, you'll love it.

[whereagles]

Chapters 1 and 5 are the best stuff on competitive bidding available.

Chapter 3 is where you learn to judge preempts. A must if you like to butt-in on nothing.

Chapters 2 and 4 can get a bit boring in the end, but still worth the trouble.