[sceptic]

Scoring: IMP

---

West North East South

 -     1♠    Pass  3♥
 Pass  3♠    Pass  4♦
 Pass  4NT   Pass  5♦
 Pass  5♥    Pass  6♠
 Pass  Pass  Pass  

[the saint]

My problem is with the 4NT bid. The auction has told you (assuming 3H was a mini splinter) that North's KJx in the suit is not working. As a result you need to find a second round diamond control with S. For a hand that has mini-splintered, there aren't enough controls in the deck - you need AK in both Diamonds and Hearts for slam to be good, and that is too strong a hand to have mini-splintered. North should realise he only has a working 9 count and sign-off with 4S.

[Wackojack]

1♠ OK
3♥ What is this? Not strong or weak JS. Presumably meant as a splinter. Even so, a splinter is not suitable as it should be supporting a 4-card raise.
3♠ Assuming you took 3♥ as a splinter this is the correct bid since a singleton heart devalues your hand.
4♦ Partner has discouraged and not cue bid 4♣ or 4♦ which either means min opening or no control in the minors. So you should be signing off in 4♠.
4NT You should assume that partner is interested in slam and could have ♠AKxx ♥x ♦ AKx(xx) ♣ xxx(x). You can find out about the ♠AK and ♦A by bidding 4NT, but can you be confident that partner has the ♦K? Alternatively you could be thinking that partner has the singleton ♥A also. Then keeping your diamond losers to 1 is a fair bet. So 4NT although pushy is OK.
5♦ 3
5♥ Why would you want to know if partner has the ♠Q when you have it yourself? I am beginning to think that you took 3♥ as a strong jump shift, and the subsequent 4♦ to show a red 2 suiter. So quite frankly you have lost me.
6♠ I don't even begin to understand.

So all-in-all a comedy of errors.

How should the bidding go?
If you have no specific system agreements 1♠-2♦-2♠-4♠ looks fine to me. In 2/1 (as you know I am new to 2/1) I believe 1♠-1NT-2♠-4♠ to be correct.

[P_Marlowe]

3H?

If it is a splinter, bid 4S, you have wasted values in
hearts and if you take away the hearts, a minimum
opening, 3S is an overbid showing willingness to
cooperate.

With kind regards
Marlowe

PS: I contemplated Mini-Splinter, but usually a Mini Splinter
shows either 8 or 6 Loosers, if it was a Mini Splinter 3S is ok,
but 4D is an overbid.

[luke warm]

3H is not a bid i could make, even if north understood it as a splinter... i'd need a 4th trump and a guarantee it wouldn't be misunderstood... i think 2D is good enough.. then over 2S, just bid 4S

even so, after the 3H splinter, the 3S bid should warn you from continuing.. i don't think the south hand warrants a slam invitational 4D

[P_Marlowe]

sceptic, on Apr 2 2006, 01:12 PM, said:

I bid the splinter 3 hearts and I took3 spades as stronger than 4 spades so I cue bid my diamond showing no club controls, after the 4NT and then Q ask, the fact that pard had no wasted values in hearts (my assumption as he seemed interested in slam) my real question to myself was he was looking for grand and I could not give it, so I stopped in 6spades

on the subject is AKx not as good as a 4 card suit ?

if you think my logic here is crap please feel free to tell me as I am not 100% sure yet I bid crap, but I would like to understand if I am guilty of crap bidding

Hi,

it is a matter of partnership agreement, if
a splinter bid shows 4 card support,
it is a matter of partnership agreement / style
if one should 2D or 3H.

Since you were south, you did nothing
wrong, 3S is stronger than 4S, 4D shows
the control.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[luke warm]

sceptic, on Apr 2 2006, 01:14 PM, said:

Quote

think 2D is good enough

do you really think the diamond suit is good enough when I can support pards major as a priority

it depends on whether or not you judge the hand to be game going... i'd prefer a 4th spade, but i probably have 4 tricks in my own hand... i think i'd insist on 4s here

[Mr. Dodgy]

I was North

It's the first time I've played with Wayne and we didn't discuss a lot.

The problem started with 3♥ - I took this as old-fashioned SJS: 16+/5+♥s.

I'm game-forced so decide to show my extra ♠ before supporting ♥s.

Then comes 4♦...and my hand seems to keep getting better. Hence 4NT. More a suggestion to carry on than seeking any particular information. I was fairly intent on bidding 5♥ - finally showing my 'support' - if possible after any response. Yes, this might be interpreted as queen-asking (if I had known that we had agreed a suit) but it wouldn't be the first time I've 'asked' in order to sign-off at 5♠

Personally, I'd probably just bid 4♠ immediately as responder.


Justin

[Mr. Dodgy]

I do like your logic though :-) AKx is sweet. I just don't play minisplinters lol

[P_Marlowe]

Mr. Dodgy, on Apr 2 2006, 08:23 PM, said:

I was North

It's the first time I've played with Wayne and we didn't discuss a lot.

The problem started with 3♥ - I took this as old-fashioned SJS: 16+/5+♥s.

I'm game-forced so decide to show my extra ♠ before supporting ♥s.

Then comes 4♦...and my hand seems to keep getting better. Hence 4NT. More a suggestion to carry on than seeking any particular information. I was fairly intent on bidding 5♥ - finally showing my 'support' - if possible after any response. Yes, this might be interpreted as queen-asking (if I had known that we had agreed a suit) but it wouldn't be the first time I've 'asked' in order to sign-off at 5♠ 

Personally, I'd probably just bid 4♠ immediately as responder.


Justin

Hi,

assuming 3H as SJS, I prefer 4H to 3S, 3S is just
a waiting move, ... you will have to bid 3S also
in cases you dont have a real good alternative,
e.g. min. opener, single hearts and only mixed
values in the minors.

If you really like your hand you could bid 5H, but
you have a min. opener, ... with heart support yes,
but still min.

With kind regards
Marlowe

PS: As the disccussion showed, neither of you did really
stupid things, you just had a misunderstanding regarding
the meaning of 3H, thats all, ... hopefully you enjoyed the
session anyway.

[civill]

the saint, on Apr 2 2006, 05:44 AM, said:

My problem is with the 4NT bid. The auction has told you (assuming 3H was a mini splinter) that North's KJx in the suit is not working. As a result you need to find a second round diamond control with S. For a hand that has mini-splintered, there aren't enough controls in the deck - you need AK in both Diamonds and Hearts for slam to be good, and that is too strong a hand to have mini-splintered. North should realise he only has a working 9 count and sign-off with 4S.

4NT should be replaced by 4♥ or 4♠, because that the slam is obvious weak for trump suit or sid esuit controls,even if only basing on bid sequence.