[Walddk]

Scoring: IMPs

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Team game, vul against not.

1♣ - 1♠
2♣ - ?

What is your rebid and why? In case it means anything to you, WJS is not on your cc.

Roland

[Joe de Balliol]

I bid 2S the previous round. Now I'll have to bid 3S [forcing] and follow up with 4N.

J

[Fluffy]

Depends who I am playing with I'll bid 2♦ or 2♥. If I don't know who I am playing with I'll take the by now sure path of 2♦.

[mike777]

4D rkc for clubs

3s is not forcing, 2s is very weak, I hate bidding fake suits so 4d by default.

This hand is not that great.

[jdonn]

If the hand is not that great (and you are right about that) then why are you bidding RKC already? You don't even know the proper strain yet, it could be spades, notrump or clubs. Even if you knew you belonged in clubs you are not nearly good enough for keycard. There are tons of hands off 3 keycards (Kx x KJx KJxxxxx), off 2 keycards but down in 5♣ (xx Axx Kx KJTxxx), off 1 keycard but down in slam (A AJx xxx Kxxxxx). You could even give partner something great, say a spade void, 3 keycards, and 7 clubs, - Axx Axx Kxxxxxx, and slam is still extremely marginal at best (do you play spades to set up? ruff diamonds and hope clubs are 2-2?) Don't some people rebid 2♣ here with just five of them? Can't partner have six or seven little clubs? Let's figure out where we belong by going slowly, not take wild random stabs that don't tell us what we need to know.

[mike777]

I agree 5c may be down while 4spades makes I assume 3s here is nonforcing,
I assume 2d and then some number of spades is nonforcing, not sure how to find out partner has 2 spades but willing to listen and learn. As I said not a great hand, a real problem for me. Of course if I can rebid spades forcing at some point this hand would be less of a problem. Are you saying 2d sets up a game force?

We open 1d with 4d and 5c so I expect p to have 6clubs very often here and less than 3spades often but possible.

[Kalvan14]

2♦ and then 3♠ over any rebid is certainly forcing (if this is not true, it must be a strange system: the only game forcing auction would start with a SJ ).

I'm not yet sure about the strain (it might be spades - most likely , but also clubs and NT have chances). I want to play game, but I'm a bit sceptic about slam chances (unless pard rebids 2♠ over 2♦: in this case I'd bid 4N RKC, but it is the one and only case).

Asking for KC with this hand (where I've 3 possible strains to play in and pard has already limited his hand) is certainly the path I'm not going to take.

[mike777]

"2D and then 3♠ over any rebid is certainly forcing"


ok so you guys are saying:
1c=1s
2c=2d
3c or 2nt=3s is forcing to game?

[Kalvan14]

mike777, on Mar 30 2006, 06:59 PM, said:

"2D and then 3♠ over any rebid is certainly forcing"


ok so you guys are saying:
1c=1s
2c=2d
3c or 2nt=3s is forcing to game?

Yes. But I am willing to learn: is there a sure forcing sequence after 1♣-1♠-2♣-2♦-3♣, assuming that now 3♠ would not be forcing?


Don't tell me 3♥, pretty please: introducing a second possibly artificial suit when I've a GF hand with values in the black suit would be too much for me

[mikeh]

mike777, on Mar 30 2006, 06:59 PM, said:

ok so you guys are saying:
1c=1s
2c=2d
3c or 2nt=3s is forcing to game?

I don't know about the other guys, but for me this is forcing, and I frankly think that this is standard: to the point that it would not occur to me that an expert partner would even consider passing were I to employ the sequence. In fact, we recently had a thread in which barmar (I think it was) got upset with me because I suggested that the sequence 1♥ 1♠ 2♥ 3♣ 3♥ 3♠ was so obviously forcing that the post belonged in the beginner/intermediate thread...

Mike, you conceded that you had no solution to the sequence otherwise.. to the point that you were driven to an appalling misuse of keycard, on a auction in which the answer to keycard would leave you with little idea of what to bid next.

So for me this is an easy 2♦ followed by a minimum number of ♠.

If partner were to bid 2♠, then I would bid a forcing 3♠: once again, bridge logic compells (I think) the conclusion that this is forcing (it is expressly described as such in the notes of all 3 of my partnerships in which the notes descend to such detail) because responder is unlimited and must have some way of setting trump below game in order to explore slam chances.

[mike777]

ok I learned something thanks.
I was not being sarcastic, thanks.

[mikeh]

I didn't think you were

I love this forum in part because it affords all of us an opportunity to explore aspects of the game in a manner analogous to the learning environment in which I acquired a good part of what understanding I have of the game. When I was younger, I lived in a small, remote town with a weak bridge population. However, there were 4 of us who were serious about the game and we would have 'discussions' over beer after any game. I had friends in 'the big city' to which I travelled frequently, and there the group in the pub would be larger and would include some pretty good players. We'd bring up auctions like this and have heated discussions: it was a great way to learn. Maybe that environment still exists in some places, but in my part of the world, the average bridge player is too old to do this the way we used to.

My guess is that no more than 10-15% of the NA duplicate population has a truly sound grasp of standard bidding: and my guess is that 80% of those that do, learned a lot of it through discussions rather than by reading... altho I am a huge fan of reading as a way to improve one's game.

So while we lack the beer (at least, I do when at the office) and the discussion is less personal, this forum reminds me of my youth

And the wide range of abilities and experience amongst the posters enlivens the discussions.

[joker_gib]

For me also 2♦ to set the forcing character to the auction and then repeat ♠

Alain

[whereagles]

If I have agreed on 3rd suit forcing, then 2♦ + 3♠ seems good. If pard can scrap up a delayed spade, prospects for slam are great. Otherwise I'll remove 3NT to 4♠.

If I have no agreements... well, I guess I'll just have to bid 4♠ and hope for the best.