Undos
#1
Posted 2003-August-02, 15:07
I accept all Undo requests as a matter of course.
However, of late a number of these (there have indeed been several) have been to alter the play of the cards - not cricket folks :'( It's hard enough for me to win a trick as it is without having it taken off me and the cards then played so it 'bites the dust' ???
Q to Dummy's 2 of a five card suit
Yes ;D my King reigns supreme 8)
Undo
Q to Dummy's Ace
:'( poor chap he's going to get roughed up :'(
IMO undos should only be requested to remedy genuine misclicks (not even used to repair the ravages of wayward mice )
#2
Posted 2003-August-02, 19:17
Quote
I accept all Undo requests as a matter of course.
However, of late a number of these (there have indeed been several) have been to alter the play of the cards - not cricket folks :'( It's hard enough for me to win a trick as it is without having it taken off me and the cards then played so it 'bites the dust' ???
Q to Dummy's 2 of a five card suit
Yes ;D my King reigns supreme 8)
Undo
Q to Dummy's Ace
:'( poor chap he's going to get roughed up :'(
IMO undos should only be requested to remedy genuine misclicks (not even used to repair the ravages of wayward mice :D)
Sort of a variation on the Alcatraz Coup!
#3
Posted 2003-August-24, 10:00
my 2 cents
Polly
#4
Posted 2003-August-24, 14:11
If they bid something (not pass) and then ask to undo I normally don't accept (because they describe their hands twice then), but if they pass and ask for an undo I might consider it.
When playing it can be a big difference, because then everybody knows a certain card, so ops can find some defense which is very hard to find. If they play a card, I don't accept undos. If you're playing in real life at a table, ops don't accept an undo either. You have time enough to think which card you want to play, and time enough to check if you're clicking on the right card...
#5
Posted 2003-August-24, 15:51
I am pretty generous accepting undoes but I always retain the right to not accept.
If in doubt ask privately why the player wants an undo.
my 2c
Wayne
I believe that the USA currently hold only the World Championship For People Who Still Bid Like Your Auntie Gladys - dburn
dunno how to play 4 card majors - JLOGIC
True but I know Standard American and what better reason could I have for playing Precision? - Hideous Hog
Bidding is an estimation of probabilities SJ Simon
#6
Posted 2003-August-26, 11:06
Somebody who tried the two-way Q finesse both ways on an undo would get a quick trip to "club" and lobbyland, immediately after the hand - if it were not my table, I would apologize to partner and leave myself.
I have frequently allowed undoes of bids, and especially passes, doubles and redoubles; many is the time I have clicked to gain focus or to remove a chat window and found myself with a unscheduled pass. And if it's a bid - well, we'll let it go this time. Let's see what's going on. It might have been something innocuous like 1H, no sorry, 1S; relatively innocuous like 1H, sorry 2H; could be a "oops, too much multi" 2D, sorry 2H; and it could be something ugly. If it gets to be too much, I'll start denying them; if they get upset about it, I'll apologize and find another table.
OTOH, I tend to play most of my games against people I know well and trust; that makes granting undoes, even in dangerous situations, pretty safe. I'll lose imps against them, but I'm not in the national finals, am I?
Tournaments - all bets are off. If I make a misclick, I eat it, and apologize to partner. If the opps do, I happily and with no guilt take my reward. That seems to be the prevailing interpretation, and I'll play to it.
Michael.
#7
Posted 2003-September-02, 08:26
==============
My particular philosophy is to allow Undos in general. I'm not playing tournament bridge and if people want to cheat against me, I let them. On the other hand, if I'm fairly sure cheating is going on, I don't play against them again. If it is bad enough, I curtail the game as quickly as I can do so politely.
Like Michael, I prefer to play against people I think I've got to know and trust (I like to kibitz a lot). Accordingly, I think I have only played twice where I thought the opponents were cheating (and once when I was kibitzing, I thought someone was cheating -- but not that person's partner!!!).
If an Undo is going to ruin the hand, I generally refuse the Undo and then ask for a Redeal -- yes, that means opponents may not get a bad board that was coming their way, but what the hell, I play to enjoy myself.
I don't think I've ever refused declarer an Undo (I have a funny habit, which I should probably work hard to eliminate -- if declarer makes a play that appears to be an obvious brain fault (e.g. only one spot card out and declarer plays small instead of an honour), I wait a few extra seconds -- gives him or her a chance to notice the "misclick" and request an Undo.
#8
Posted 2003-September-02, 08:58
A few of these from an opponent, and then, I continue to allow undo's, I simply will not play with that opponent. I also virtually always allow redeals. I know of only one exception. An opponent left the table mid hand. A new opponent joined. He asked for redeal (I usually do so in that situtation myself). However, I could claim all but two tricks, so I rejected the undo, and made the claim so he could see the cards. That is, I didn't force him to have to play without a clue as to what went before.
As far as the rules go, always allow undo's, never allow undo's, or make individual judgements.. they are all fine. I will tell a story, however. One day a player with a name like no_undos (don't remember the exact name), and with text in his profile that rempeat the information that he doesn't allow undo;s joined the table... A few hands in, HE ASKED for an undo. LOL... well, I made a comment about it, with a smilley face to point out the irony, but as per my general rule, I allowed the undo (as did my partner without comment). However, perhpas my comment was too much because he left the table (after the undo was accepted btw).
Ben
#9
Posted 2003-September-02, 19:09
Misho
#10
Posted 2003-September-22, 07:01
IF so I do NOT agree with undo - let's make it as CLOSE ot ftf bridge as possible - you CAN'T undo play in ftf (unless you catch a revoke before it's established)
#11
Posted 2003-September-22, 07:17
1. It is quite easy to make a wrong play unintationally at bbo. Why should we penalisze our opps for this small mistake?
2. Why do I play bridge at bbo? I play to have fun, to learn something about this game and to improve.
If I refuse an undo, this does not match to my goals at all.
I won`t learn more and I won`t have more fun. So why should I refuse?
If there is a tournement for high stakes, if I represent my country/city/Club in a big contest, I will change my mind and win in any legal way.
But there is absolutely no reason for me to refuse undos while playing just bridge.
Kind Regards
Roland
Roland
Sanity Check: Failure (Fluffy)
More system is not the answer...
#12
Posted 2003-September-22, 07:28
The rules of the site (if you haven't read them yet, are available as the first text in the bridge library), state that it is only proper to ask for undo's "when you have made a misclick. If you made a poor bid or play or for any other reason, it is inappropriate to ask for an undo."
My working assumption is that when someone ask for an undo, the reason is a misclick. Therefore, I tend to allow ALL undo's.
Ben
#13
Posted 2003-September-22, 08:35
#14
Posted 2003-September-22, 09:56
This is not an attempt to prevent enjoyment, which is the "Prime Directive", but I believe that mechanical mistakes are part of the normal game and misclicks are the online equivalent.
Although this may seem harsh, I would point out that all my BBO bridge is (appears :-) ) to be played against advanced or better players who, by definition, should be experienced duplicate combatants.
Paul
#15
Posted 2003-September-22, 10:20
So i usually allow undo's.
But if someone needs undo's too often or to optimize the result, i loose interest in playing with that person.
For myself i try to avoid undos, even when i missclick. I prefer a bad score at the board, to an undo.
hotShot
#16
Posted 2003-September-23, 02:02
regards
#17
Posted 2003-October-27, 03:34
We are playing for fun, so just let them undo and I use my skills to win them, but not winning them due to their misclick.
However, in a tourney, if one misclick and request for an undo, to have a fair game, it is a good code of practice to restrict yourself with lead penalty, major penalty card, minor penalty card, etc.
#18
Posted 2003-November-02, 01:37
I figure that if you misclik you SHOULD take the consequences - AND I have MANY times when trying to find way around site >
Quote
This is not an attempt to prevent enjoyment, which is the "Prime Directive", but I believe that mechanical mistakes are part of the normal game and misclicks are the online equivalent.
Although this may seem harsh, I would point out that all my BBO bridge is (appears :-) ) to be played against advanced or better players who, by definition, should be experienced duplicate combatants.
Paul