[luis]

Scoring: IMP

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LHO opens 1♠ and pd overcalls 2♦, pass by RHO.

What do you bid now?
What would you bid assuming you have passed as dealer?

[awm]

2♠ (limit raise) for me in either case. I expect a pretty good hand for partner's overcall, especially given the likely spade length. We could have a heart fit, but 2♥ here should show a better suit than this, and if we're going to game partner can still introduce hearts on the way.

While I think 3♣ by a passed hand should be fit-showing (or at least tolerance-showing), bidding that way is too likely to miss a heart fit for my taste.

[mike777]

2s but I think it is very close to just bidding 3D.

If I was a passed hand, easier 2S bid now.

[jdeegan]

mike777's post says it all for me.

[whereagles]

There are many ways to bid this one, depending on the methods. Without any particular agreement I'd try either 3♣ or 2♠.

By the way, why haven't I opened a weak 2♣, or a 9-11 1NT??

[hatchett]

I think 2♠ is clear, passed hand or not, but clearly it depends on your style of overcalling.

[FrancesHinden]

I start with 2S. I think an interesting question is whether to move again if partner signs off in 3D (unlike those who think it's close whether to bother showing a good raise at all).

It sounds like partner has some spade length. Let's see, how about
xxxx
x
AKxxxx
Kxx

opposite (a very minimum overcall) and slam just needs clubs 3-2 with the Queen onside and diamonds 3-1.

Don't bother telling me in fact partner has Jx Qxx AKJxxx Kx.

I quite like 3C as a passed hand, except there are so many goodies it's difficult to know what to tell partner about!

[mikeh]

2♠ for me, and I share Frances' optimism, but I doubt that I can bid over the signoff.... and if I intend to do so, I hope the signoff is in tempo.

Had I passed, I'd certainly consider a splinter to 3♠, but the lack of a 4th trump would probably persuade me otherwise.

[Cascade]

I raise with much less so a cue-raise of 2♠ is clear.

I would want five hearts to bid them (or at least four very good ones) and 3♣ makes it harder to get to hearts when that is right.

Singleton spade is good

Four hearts are a potential alternative strain

♦Q is good in partner's suit

and the club suit has excellent potential

So this is definitely a good raise.

[Kalvan14]

2♠, in either case. Like Frances, I'd be happier if pard denied a spade stopper.
A slam in diamond is quite possible (opposite a 3-1-6-3 or similar). 3♠ (Western Q or splinter) would require 4 diamonds.
3♣ is interesting, provided that it is fit-showing; still I believe that the spade singleton is more significant.

A fit in hearts is unlikely (the only possibilities are hands with singleton or void in clubs), but who knows?

[civill]

I'll bid 2♠ if PD bid 2♥ instead of 2♦;now 3♦ is my better choice

[Fluffy]

2♠ seems clear, as a passed hand 3♣ comes to mind, but that could be a bit weaker.

[Fluffy]

FrancesHinden, on Mar 16 2006, 07:46 PM, said:

I start with 2S.  I think an interesting question is whether to move again if partner signs off in 3D (unlike those who think it's close whether to bother showing a good raise at all).

It sounds like partner has some spade length.  Let's see, how about
xxxx
x
AKxxxx
Kxx

opposite (a very minimum overcall) and slam just needs clubs 3-2 with the Queen onside and diamonds 3-1.

You are missing 2 aces I think.

When I saw the topic title I though....
Another question where the answer is, what are our partnership agreements?. Because I know many people that overcall 2♦ on AQJxx and nothing else. I try to avoid to play with that people as much as I can because that minimum you posted is close to a 3♦ preempt to me .

[inquiry]

2!S if I am unpassed hand

3!C (fit non-jump) if I am a passed hand.

Playing with a sound overcaller at the two level, I will make another game try if he tries to signoff.

[luis]

Thanks for the comments,
When I polled this at the club most players said they would bid 2♠, some conservative guys declared preference for 3♦ and of course my pd bid neither of those he bid 3♣. I kind of like the 3♣ bid and I was interested to know if this by an unpassed hand is ok or not, after all a change of suit from 2♦ to 3♣ by an unpassed hand has to be forcing and gives more information than 2♠.

My hand was:

AJTx
9
AKTxxx
Qx

Luis

[mike777]

My guess the reason so few people choose 3Clubs is that less than 1% (250,000) of us bridge players are sure that 3C is forcing or promises D? Is this pretty standard in the expert world?

[luis]

mike777, on Mar 17 2006, 05:43 PM, said:

My guess the reason so few people choose 3Clubs is that less than 1% (250,000) of us bridge players are sure that 3C is forcing or promises D? Is this pretty standard in the expert world?

Well my pd thought it was clearly forcing and I took it as 100% forcing. But neither of us were sure about 3♣ promising diamond support or not.

My pd argued "why would I bid 2♠ If I can show my hand bidding 3♣?" and that makes sense to me, the hand can be a partscore a game or a slam and if you start with a nebulous 2♠ holding AJT98 of clubs chances are you will never find out your perfect strain.

I'm very sure 3♣ is forcing over a 2♦ overcall (you can always pass 2♦)
I'm not sure about 3♣ showing support or not
I'm not sure 3♣ is better than 2♠ but I kind of like the way my pd explained it, maybe that's why we play together?

[Cascade]

I'd play 3♣ as definitely forcing. It is too hard to bid your constructive hands otherwise.

I don't think it promises diamonds though. Responder is allowed a good hand without diamonds. Although I know some players that insist that it shows at least diamond tolerance. I haven't found out what they do when they do not have tolerance.

Having said all of this I recently lost a final in the last 8 boards where our opponents passed 3♣ Forcing in a nearly identical sequence making exactly when we bid on to a hopeless 3NT. Amazingly in a similar auction on another hand in the same last 8 boards at the other table they also passed a forcing 3♦. Altogether we lost 18 IMPs on these two boards to lose by around 10 IMPs.

At least one of the opponents acknowledged that they were lucky!!!

[whereagles]

luis, on Mar 17 2006, 06:00 PM, said:

Well my pd thought it was clearly forcing and I took it as 100% forcing. But neither of us were sure about 3♣ promising diamond support or not.

My pd argued "why would I bid 2♠ If I can show my hand bidding 3♣?" and that makes sense to me, the hand can be a partscore a game or a slam and if you start with a nebulous 2♠ holding AJT98 of clubs chances are you will never find out your perfect strain.

I'm very sure 3♣ is forcing over a 2♦ overcall (you can always pass 2♦)
I'm not sure about 3♣ showing support or not
I'm not sure 3♣ is better than 2♠ but I kind of like the way my pd explained it, maybe that's why we play together?

Well, most people play that a 3/2 advance is forcing. But obviously this doesn't hold anymore if bid by a passed hand.

However, there aren't many passsed hands that would want to bid 3♣ now because not only a passed hand is a moderately weak hand, but also because that moderately weak hand with a club suit usually opens 3♣.

This is why I think your pard's 3♣ bid should show at least tolerance for diamonds. Probably even a fit. The above inferences are especially strong if you're playing some opening showing a weak 2 in clubs. (Like 1NT multi for the minors, or 1NT weak clubs or 15-17, 2♣ weak 2, etc.)