[whereagles]

cherdano, on Mar 14 2006, 05:29 PM, said:

there is big money in this deal when we can successfully bid 4♠ over 4♥. It seems to me 2♠ gives partner the best chance to do so when it is right.

This is a valid point (the other were not convincing ), but I think it's an even greater guess than bidding michaels, so I'd still go with 2♥.

[MickyB]

I think all of Arend's points were convincing.

If I could show my two suits immediately, that would arguably leave pard better placed to decide whether to bid 4S over 4H than a 2S WJO would. We will always have to make at least a trick more in spades than in clubs to achieve the same result; often landing in a 6-1 spade fit instead of a 5-3 club fit won't matter. With 6 hearts 5 diamonds over a 1S opening, there is much more reason to show a 2 suiter.

[keylime]

I do not Michaels.

I'm waiting on 1H-P-1NT-P-P-2S.

If I Michaels, pard can not accurate judge whether to compete/sacrifice here when you're stiff, stiff in the other two suits. It also forewarns the opps that foul splits are coming.

I MIGHT bid 2♠, but likely, I pass and listen to the auction.

[Al_U_Card]

This hand has so much playing strength but that is all so don't let the cat out of the bag......bid 1S. Pard will raise if its right and if they try to dbl for penalty you do have an interesting place to run. If it was 5S and 6C cards I would use Mod. Michaels to show S and C specifically when appropriate but this hand is too weak to push to the 3 level alone vul vs not.

[jdeegan]

No.
Lots of good comments on this topic, and I agree with most of them. Unfortunately, I only get to make one bid, but I can assure you it would not be 2♥. The hand just don't look right. It's probably that sixth spade that does it.

[Kalvan14]

cherdano, on Mar 14 2006, 12:29 PM, said:

I am not convinced 2H is safer at all than 2♠. I would certainly prefer 2♠ in a 6-2 fit over 3♣ in a 5-3 fit on heart forces. Also, Michaels is much easier to double.

I may be wrong but to me it seems that suit quality is even more important for 2-suited preempts than for single suited preempts. Also, if I get doubled in 2♠ I at least have some extra shape as surprise, so that it could still be a mistake by them.

Anyway, there is big money in this deal when we can successfully bid 4♠ over 4♥. It seems to me 2♠ gives partner the best chance to do so when it is right.

Arend

All good points. And the 6th spade is a big plus. Michaels are a relic of a time when bridge was less competitive than nowadays.

[coyot]

In the Michaels camp. We play this as spades + any, weak or strong. 2♠ would be criminal if partner has 5 clubs to Jack and 0-2 spades. The sixth spade is good to compensate for lack of middle values in the otherwise promised 5-5.

Sure, if we have no good fit, I've just warned the opponents about the bad splits... but:

If we have spade 9-10fit, a quick 4♠ from partner will leave the opps in the dark. They might have 10 diamonds and be afraid to bid them. (Yes, happenned to me recently as a victim - I could not determine which minor the Michaels overcalled had and missed a cold slam, fearing my Kx was under tenace).

If we have clubs, we might find a good sacrifice on cross-ruffs.

[coyot]

cherdano, on Mar 14 2006, 12:29 PM, said:

I am not convinced 2H is safer at all than 2♠. I would certainly prefer 2♠ in a 6-2 fit over 3♣ in a 5-3 fit on heart forces. Also, Michaels is much easier to double.

Doubled michaels is the best thing that can happen to you, especially if partner is able to jump-raise your known suit, leaving opps in the dark about the other suit.

Plus, partner with 2 spades and 3 clubs could bid 2♠, or not? Why go to 3rd level with 8 trumps if we can stay on 2nd level on 7? Especially following the no-double no-trouble principle.

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Also, if I get doubled in 2♠ I at least have some extra shape as surprise, so that it could still be a mistake by them.

Agree with that - having a two suiter opps don't know about might help me make 2♠ doubled.

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Anyway, there is big money in this deal when we can successfully bid 4♠ over 4♥. It seems to me 2♠ gives partner the best chance to do so when it is right.

I don't think this big money is endangered by Michaels. The 5-5 shape gives better playing strength than any 6331. If you want to bid 4♠ over 4♥, you expect partner to have 4 spades, don't you? And don't you think that he would bid 4♠ against 5-5 as well? (Because he either supports your second suit or can contribute two ruffs of it).

The only advantage of 2♠ would be keeping the 5card in clubs hidden from the opponents, but, then, preempting on a bare 6th queen in red is no big deal...

[Blofeld]

coyot, on Mar 17 2006, 10:52 AM, said:

cherdano, on Mar 14 2006, 12:29 PM, said:

I am not convinced 2H is safer at all than 2♠. I would certainly prefer 2♠ in a 6-2 fit over 3♣ in a 5-3 fit on heart forces. Also, Michaels is much easier to double.

Doubled michaels is the best thing that can happen to you, especially if partner is able to jump-raise your known suit, leaving opps in the dark about the other suit.

It may work well if partner does jump-raise, but is unlikely to be great otherwise (and the fact that they double decreases the chance that there will be a jump-raise). And critically, if this is a misfit deal then they're almost certain to be able to penalise after michael's, and less so after 2♠.

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Plus, partner with 2 spades and 3 clubs could bid 2♠, or not? Why go to 3rd level with 8 trumps if we can stay on 2nd level on 7? Especially following the no-double no-trouble principle.

What if partner also has 4 or 5 diamonds? She's not likely to prefer the 7-card spade fit when there may be a 9+ minor fit, and is almost certainly an 8-card fit. Plus, a 6 card minor tends to be more likely in the michael's hand than a 6-card major.