[luis]

Scoring: IMP

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4♥ without opponents bidding.
The lead is a club and you win the Ace in dummy.

Now at the local club there're two bands, one says to play the spade Jack from dummy the other band says lead a diamond towards KQ.
Which line do you take in 4♥ and why?

Luis

[Gerben42]

I would run the ♠J, I will have to at some point.

A typical danger of playing ♦ to the King is that it holds, ♥A , small ♥ to LHO who takes the King and plays ♦ to the Ace and a ♦ ruff.

[whereagles]

So many chances... I wouldn't know where to start, so I'll just trust my gut feeling and play a diamond to the king, followed by ace and another heart...

[kenrexford]

There are too many potential inferences from the bidding, undisclosed without an auction, for this to be a fair question.

I will assume, however, 1♥-P-3♦-P-4♥, as this would be a plausible no-bid auction. I somehow must have assumed that the club lead was from several small to not take the club finesse. Sure, it might not "gain" in the traditional sense, but it still looks appealing against a small club lead. So, I assume RHO to have the club King, inferentially.

I also infer that LHO has the diamond Ace and a spade card, using a weak restricted choice. In a Bergen auction, with no trump lead, I expect NOT Kxx, but perhaps Jxx. He could also, however, have short hearts (a stiff) as he is apparently marked for general weakness.

I'm not at all sure I'd go for a diamond OR a spade at this point. Being required to pick one, I'd try the spade Jack, just because it offers the best chance for a read on RHO's eventual duck. Plus, as before, the diamond play seems off because of restricted choice, anyway.

[Gerben42]

Given that Luis plays Fantunes with one of his regular partners a typical auction will probably start with a 2♥ opening bid, perhaps it even went 2♥ 4♥...

So just play as if you know nothing as the opening post suggested.

[Free]

If we lose 2 ♠s, we can still manage 4♥ if we can play ♥ for no losers. However, playing ♦s is a lot more dangerous. So I'll start with ♠J...

[kenrexford]

I will add that the spade play offers the best hope if I guess wrong. At least I get a diamond pitch in time. I may lose two spades and a diamond and still have a prayer if I guess the right 3-1 heart split.

[Limey_p]

I view this as an issue of personal style, not which play is "right".

The introvert will lead a diamond, saying to himself "I can guess the spade situation later when I have more information"

The extrovert will say "I play spades now, before RHO knows my problem. And if he doesn't cover, he doesn't have the queen"

All this with a

[mikeh]

I don't think that I am or am viewed as an extrovert, but I lead the ♠J.

It is important in these situations to have decided your trick 2 play before calling for the ♣A. Thus you play the ♣A and then, having played to the trick, call for the ♠J in tempo.

Of course, in a world in which all opps card perfectly, this is not an edge, but... we do not live in a perfect world and our opps do sometimes make an error by covering (and who is to say that, with that dummy, covering is an error?) or by flinching. Against most opps I would rise the K if RHO seemed to have no problem: using Zia's Bols bridge tip: if they don't cover, they don't hold it.

[luis]

For the ones interested the bidding was 2♥ by south, and north invited to play 4♥ and south gladly accepted. That's why I didn't post the bidding, nothing to get from the auction.

One of the top players come out and said "the only way to start was to play a diamond to the King at trick 2" while another one said "I think running the spade jack first is better" the discussion quickly heated.
Then people started to take sides but no side could give a logical explanation about why one line was better than the other.

The interesting question is who was right without subjectivities.

[Al_U_Card]

So the opps have 18 hcp and 2 8-card black suit fits but did no bidding.....therefore the points are likely evenly split as are the hearts ( or perhaps the King is even stiff?). Playing the D allows the ace to be found with little risk as the suits are quite possibly 4234 on both sides. I like the D play to help locate the D ace so you have a better understanding of the location of the S ace.

[luis]

Al_U_Card, on Mar 8 2006, 08:50 PM, said:

So the opps have 18 hcp and 2 8-card black suit fits but did no bidding.....therefore the points are likely evenly split as are the hearts ( or perhaps the King is even stiff?). Playing the D allows the ace to be found with little risk as the suits are quite possibly 4234 on both sides. I like the D play to help locate the D ace so you have a better understanding of the location of the S ace.

If you play a diamond to the King that will hold no matter who has the diamond ace.
I don't know where you live but vulnerable opponents who hold a combined 18 hcp count don't enter the bidding a lot in my country.

[Al_U_Card]

Without doubt, unless immediately after the H bid, that hand has opening values, shortness in H and 4 S and 4C and 3D...........I think it's called a t/o dbl, but maybe I'm influenced by all the wild bidding that happens on-line

[Al_U_Card]

luis, on Mar 8 2006, 02:57 PM, said:

Then people started to take sides but no side could give a logical explanation about why one line was better than the other.

The interesting question is who was right without subjectivities.

Unless you were just looking for other types of suggestions? Crystal ball, tarot cards,

[luke warm]

i don't know which is better, but i'd lead the jack because i don't like my position when the ♦K wins

[Limey_p]

Quote

The interesting question is who was right without subjectivities.

I do not think there is a technically correct answer to this one. So I think the subjective issues are the ones that lead to success or failure. And in truth I am no extrovert either but I believe that Mikeh has said the right things about this deal.

As to the people taking sides at Luis's club, I still assert it is a "style over substance" issue. with a

AP

[Fluffy]

♦from dummy might endplay LHO at trick 2 and that looks very nice

[luis]

Fluffy, on Mar 9 2006, 01:56 AM, said:

♦from dummy might endplay LHO at trick 2 and that looks very nice

A diamond to the King will always win the trick no matter who has the diamond ace...

[whereagles]

luis, on Mar 8 2006, 07:57 PM, said:

no side could give a logical explanation about why one line was better than the other.

That's very natural. There are complicated situations in bridge where what to play a question of feeling. Since "feeling" is a subcounscious sum of previous experiences, it's only natural that some people would take line A or B because they have different experiences. There is really no support for why they take one of the lines, but this is how humans learn and play the game. Don't fight it.

luis, on Mar 8 2006, 07:57 PM, said:

The interesting question is who was right without subjectivities.

Who is technically right is academic. What matters is the answer at table and that is based on feeling. You don't have the time to evaluate odds, and besides, that would probably be irrelevant anyway, since it doesn't enter with variables such as what would defenders make of the play.