[jdulmage]

Scoring: IMP

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That's it, here's the hand.

it goes:

Pass-(Pass)-1♦ by East-(Pass)-1♥ by West-(Pass)-2♥ by East-All Pass.

Making 3 for +140.

The opponents are in 3NT making for +600. Loss of 10 imps.

Was the auction right to stop in 2 hearts or was there any reason to push to 3NT with these hands?

[mikeh]

I don't see any way in which any of my partnerships would or could reach 3N.

I would always end up in ♥; the only issue being whether I could stay out of the poor but not hopeless 4♥.

I would never open 1♦ as east: for me this is a clear 1♥ bid. There is little purpose in playing 5 card majors in 3rd and 4th seat: and even less reason for playing 5 card 1♥ opening bids.

As for which major, with 4=4 in 3rd seat I always open 1♥, since this gives us the chance to find ♠, whereas if I open 1♠, we are almost never finding even a 5=4 ♥ fit.

Opposite a 1♥ opening, west has a big hand, and using 4 card drury, might well get too high (assuming the 140 was the limit).

As for 3N: if the opps got there knowing what they were doing, then they are going to beat me every day: they are too tough. If they stumbled into it, (as I suspect they did) then I will catch up on the rest of the hands (I hope).

[jdulmage]

Thanks for the reply. This was a hand that I played. I was west, my partner was east. Yes, 140 was the limit, there wasn't any more tricks to be had unless the defense decided to mess up.

I figured 3NT was stumbled upon as well after looking at the situation.

I like the 1♥ opener, I would have done the same thing. However, I was not east :-)

[pclayton]

mikeh, on Mar 9 2006, 05:19 PM, said:

<snip>

I would never open 1♦ as east: for me this is a clear 1♥ bid. There is little purpose in playing 5 card majors in 3rd and 4th seat: and even less reason for playing 5 card 1♥ opening bids.

Half-true I think.

Don't open a 4 card major if you aren't prepared to pass a 1N response by pard. Otherwise, opening a 4 card major is a recipe for playing a 4-2 fit. We only open 4 card majors in 3rd and 4th seat on minimums or sub minimums.

Even then, once East raises (promising a full opener), I think West can make a game try of 3♦ on the double fit. East I would think rejects with the ugly diamonds.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

depending on your opening bid style,
I think pass over 2H is a bit conservative,
I would have invited to a heart game,
an invitation opener accepts, unless
responder shows the singleton in spade
via a 2S short trial bid.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[awm]

Hard to get to 3NT on these hands. A couple sensible ways do come to mind:

(1) Same start as your auction, followed by a short-suit game try in ♠. Opener can try 3NT with a max but wasted values.

(2) 1NT (14-16) by east, spade splinter by west, 3NT.

Neither of these is exactly standard bidding. I'm pretty sure Sam and I would have auction (2).

[joker_gib]

P_Marlowe, on Mar 10 2006, 08:42 AM, said:

Hi,

depending on your opening bid style,
I think pass over 2H is a bit conservative,
I would have invited to a heart game,
an invitation opener accepts, unless
responder shows the singleton in spade
via a 2S short trial bid.

With kind regards
Marlowe

I agree and the short suit game try is the only way to reach 3NT.

Alain

[Codo]

I strongly disagree, that you "must" open 4 card majors in 3. and 4. seat. This is just a (common(?)) opinion, but not prooved yet.

And I don`t think, that reaching a game contract with this hands is so much wanted.
I doubt that the chances to succeed are so high in 3 NT:
You give away 3 sure loosers and you have many ways to looses, esp. if the spades are bad placed or you cannot find the diamonds.

Of course, after seeing both hands, 3 NT gains a lot. But I still don`t see many hands, where 3 Heart is the limt, but 3 NT is making, s I don`t believe, that 3 NT is a long time winner with these kind of hands..

Anyway, West surely must bid over2 Heart. Part could have passed 1 HEart, so he surely has a full opener, so a simple invitation is just perfect.

[Miron]

I sometimes open 1♥♠ on third seat with just four card (usually 8-14). I think it has some sense.

1) But I clearly do not see the reason that the oppening on 3th seat is always fourcard (if you have not openned 1♥♠ either you have 5-4 or you don't have major).
Could someone explain?

2) Why would you open on just fourcard major in fourth-suit? There is no opp with point bidding after you, seams to me as misleading (misbidding) for partner. But if there are reasons, please post'em.

As to question: I would bid 1♦. And I would (probably) end at 4♥.

[luke warm]

even playing weak nt, i can't see how e/w reach 3nt... i can see 4h, if west invites

[ArcLight]

Mike Lawrence has an excelelnt book Passed Hand Bidding
It covers situations like this.

1) the 3rd seat can open a 4 suit major. 1♥ is ok because you have some other HCP, and can pass anything pard responds. The AK make it a great lead directional suit, but the 9 and 5 are not what I'd like for a 4 card bid. Its also obstrcutive in case LHO has a monster or wanted to bid a minor.

2) Drury would be a way to explore for game. But with a 4 card heart suit, I'd sign off in 2♥ opposite a passed ahnd.

Let others reach 3NT making. Most of the time they will go down. You can go crazy trying to reach every theoretically possible game contrcat. The reality is no system is perfect, and some contracts make becasue of luck.

3NT could easily be down and you would be thinking "what fool bid to 3NT down 1
or 2 when part score was easy"