[Orla]

There are a great many conventions that you can  use in  response to Opps opening  the bidding in No Trumps. Up to now, I have used, Astro, DONT and Cappelletti and I am having problems choosing the best one   ;D

Is there anyone out here who could go through some of the conventions. Explain them for those that don't know them. And maybe give your opinion as to why one is better than then other. Also, is there a difference when you are defending weak or strong No-Trump bids?

I am asking this on the beginner string because I am hoping that those, in the know, don't bog us down with exotic conventions    Just the absolute basics.

Thanks a mil. Looking forward to the replies ...

Orla

[the hog]

Oh what a tangled we we weave!!

Technically you are better off playing a different method against strong and weak NTs. The reason is the philosophy in overcalling varies - against a strong NT, particularly at MP, your philosophy should be to disturb them ie get them out of that contract. Dont is a reasonable convention for this. Against a wnt, you may still have a game on your way, so the bidding should be more contsructive. Dont is poor against a weak NT.

Having just said this, I don't think this is practical unless you play 4-5 times a week. It is just too easy to forget. So lets find something that works against both.

I dislike Capp intensely. It is amusing that even the Cappellettis don't play their eponymous convention. There are a number of different "flavours" and they all appear flawed to me. It really should be renamed Crapalotti.
If (1NT) 2C, (or X as is played in sme variants),  shows some s/suited hand and next hand bids, say 2H or 2S, you will probably not find a fit if you have it. It may very well be too dangerous to compete again.

Asptro is quite nice: 2C = H and another, 2D = S and another and you anchor into the WEAKER Major with both Majors this means
(1NT) 2C (P) 2D*
(P)    2S
Shows both Ms with better S. Pd was not that fond of H else she would have bid them. 2NT would be a forcing enquiry. This is what we play. Other variants such as Astro etc work ok as well.

If you are prepared to give up your penalty Xs - not a big deal in my view even against a WNT, you can play an excellent convention called "Lionel", named after a great NZ player:
X = S and another, 2C/D = that suit and Hs, 2M = s/suiter natural, 2NT = ms. The prime benefit of Lionel is that it is very easy to find your fits at a low level.

If you don't like any of the above, don't scoff at 2C for the Majors, 2NT for the ms and everything else natural. It has the major, (excuse the pun), virtue of simplicity and is thus easily remembered and difficult to get wrong; and it works.

Oh, and don't let anyone tell you that you "have to be 5-5" to drag out one of these bids; even at unfavourable vul 5-4 is fine as long as your suits are decent.

[hrothgar]

Quote

Oh, and don't let anyone tell you that you "have to be 5-5" to drag out one of these bids; even at unfavourable vul 5-4 is fine as long as your suits are decent.

I'm also a big fan of Lionel over NT.
I very much like the fact that suits are usually immediately clarified.

I tack on a couple slight changes.
I use 3C as a weak bid with both minor.
I play 2NT as a monster 2 suited.

With this said and done.
My understanding is that Lionel style overcalls are recommended with 4-4 shape.  [Obviously, vulnerability factors intothe equation]

[Codo]

Hi Orla,

I am with th Hog, that you should use something against weak and something against the strong NT.
For me, a WNT has an upper range of 14 HCPS.
I don`t think, that it is so complicate to use different systems, but everybody should find his own way.

Maybe as an addition to the threat so far:
Against a strong NT, your bids are preemptive in second and constructive and fighting for the part score in 4. chair.
If you use your  preemptive bids, they are at least in second chair always around the distribution, don`t care much about HCPS. If you take f.E. DONT:
I would strongly suggest, that at any vul. JTxxx,JTxxx,xx,x is a clear cut 2 Heart bid in second seat.
(If you take the jacks away, I will think about it in red..)

Like the others said before: The required length and strength depends on the vul. I would always open 5/4 with neary any number of HCPS and 4/4 with some values (8+). If you need less length in your suits, you can use your new toy more often, but sometimes loose a hand. And even if you win a lot of 4,5 and 7 imps in the long run, it sometimes is too frustrating t pay 12 till 15. So 5/4 maybe is a good compromise.

If you wait for 5/5 hands, you won`t be punished often, but you have to wait a long time until you can use this wonderful convention. Their life is too easy after their NT opening.
By the way: There is a life after you bid. And it is very important for your pd to understand, that you preempt and disturbed.
So, even with 14 HCPS, his one and only duty is to choose the right suit at the lowest possible level.

I cannot remember a single hand, which I played against strong NT, where we had game. This may happen, but for the beginning to forget about this should be much easier then to create a bidding for strong hands.

Against a weak NT, I don`t think, that you can come away without a penalty double. Else, I would try to play my weak NT always. Without a penalty, you can never let me pay a price for the advantages I have with weak NT.
So against weak NT, Capp is okay, even if their are better systems. The main advantage: It is solid and easy and well known everywhere.

Kind Regards

Roland

[inquiry]

Quote

There are a great many conventions that you can  use in  response to Opps opening  the bidding in No Trumps. Up to now, I have used, Astro, DONT and Cappelletti and I am having problems choosing the best one   ;D

Is there anyone out here who could go through some of the conventions. Explain them for those that don't know them. And maybe give your opinion as to why one is better than then other. Also, is there a difference when you are defending weak or strong No-Trump bids?

I am asking this on the beginner string because I am hoping that those, in the know, don't bog us down with exotic conventions    Just the absolute basics.

Thanks a mil. Looking forward to the replies ...

Orla

There has already been some reasonable replies to your request, so I will just layout what a I play with my more frequent partners. We use three different conventions over opponent's 1NT.

If the 1NT includes 15 hcp in the range (14-16, 15-17, 16-18, and 13-15), we play DONT. We use DONT in both direct and balancing seat.

If the 1NT is 11-14, 12-14 (typical weak NOTRUMP), we use hamilton/capelletti. I use this convention against weak notrump because way more frequently that against stong NT. 1NTx is the best contract.

If the 1NT is the kamakaze style 8-10, 9-11, 10-12 style, we play a convention known as casino. You may not be familiar with this one. Here is how I play it (I have seen various casino schemes so I don't promise mine is the absolute official one, I know some use doube for 5-5 in majors or minors for instance, but against 10 pt 1NT, I like a penalty oriented dbl).
  Double = penalty oriented showing cards
  2C = playable in three suits including clubs (3 cards in 3 suits)
  2D = playable in S, H or C
  2H/2S/3C/3D = natural
  3H = shows hearts and a minor and real good hand
  3S = shows spades and a minor and a real good hand
  2NT = Game force

I am also fond of Woolsey Defense to 1NT when they play strong Notrump, but fewer people know it. You my not be familiar with this one,  here is the basics.
 Double = generally 5-card minor and a 4-card major, 2C response pass/correct
 2C = majors, 2D asks opener for preference
 2D = one of the majors, 2H response pass/correct
 2H = Hearts and a minor
 2S = Spades and a minor
 2N = both minors
 3any = natural

Over Woolsey 1NTx--> 2NT ask for description of minor... 3 minor is minimum and that suit, 3H = clubs and "extras", 3S=diamonds and "extras". There is more of course to all of the bids, but this give you an idea.

[pkl]

Hi Orla

I will respond as Inquiry and heavily recommend Woolsey.  Woolsey is quite simple, especially if you play multi: after 2D, you simply use your normal multi system.

If you wish to, you can change the meaning of the double against a weak 1nt - playing it as penalty oriented.  In 4th position i do recommend its normal definition, however: if not for anything else, my belief that the chance of a juicy penalty (by passing the double) is far larger using the double as "informative" here.

DONT is also okay, but its disadvantage is that you do not know which suit is the longest.

One recommendation which is neutral to your defense is to have healthy overcalls against weak nt: if not you will to often miss a reasonable game.

Enjoy!
Peter

[the hog]

If anyone intends to look up some of these conventions on the web, note that convention referred to as "Casino" by one poster, should of course be Cansino, named after its originator, Jonathon Cansino, brilliant ex English international and an erstwhile partner of Jeremy Flint.

[Rado]

Quote

There are a great many conventions that you can  use in  response to Opps opening  the bidding in No Trumps. Up to now, I have used, Astro, DONT and Cappelletti and I am having problems choosing the best one   ;D

Is there anyone out here who could go through some of the conventions. Explain them for those that don't know them. And maybe give your opinion as to why one is better than then other. Also, is there a difference when you are defending weak or strong No-Trump bids?

I am asking this on the beginner string because I am hoping that those, in the know, don't bog us down with exotic conventions    Just the absolute basics.

Thanks a mil. Looking forward to the replies ...

Orla

Hi Orla
Overcalling opps' 1NT has 2 main purposes depending on the strength of 1NT:
a) against strong NT (14+points) the point is to achieve our partscore and to prevent opps best contract
against weak NT (upto 15 points) - to found good basis for penalizing opps or to achieve our game

The difference comes from pure statistics- when opps declare 15 or more points, our game will be very rare (usually based on good fit) so the goal is to introduce as many as possible distributional hands: here obvioulsly DONT has advantage since all 1-suited and 2-suited hands may play on level 2. When Opps declare 11-15 points(some range of weak NT) then the chances for our game are still alive and also the chances for penalizing opps exist too - the conclusion is to reserve DBL as penalty oriented (mainly with balanced hands) and to make overcall constructive (near opening bids).
With my regular live Partner we play DONT against strong 14+NT and Cappeletti against weak 15-NT.
Some of our Nationals play Woolsey defence (described by Inquiry above) against Strong and same against weak changing just DBL=13+ points fairly balanced.
Nevermind what convention is used both partners must be on same wave that overcalling strong NT might be only distributional and overcalling weak must be sound (constructive)

Best regards, Rado

[Cave_Draco]

At the risk of really opening a can-of-worms; Orla's question was, to some extent, prompted by me misinterpreting an Astro response (I am a Very Old Dragon and had had a few barrels,  ).

DONT is poor against the Weak NT, no penalty X.
Cappeletti? the 2C bid is a waste.
IMO. Astro is simple & 2H/S, 3C/D are essentially preemptive.

But, then one comes to the responses...  I don't like to think of what happens after, playing DONT, 1NT-X-p-2S...

Is 2S verboten? Surely not! What would I need to bid it?

P.S. I did look at Bridgeguys section on DONT; hmmmm, P is one-suited & it is NOT Spades... ROCL.

[inquiry]

Quote

At the risk of really opening a can-of-worms; Orla's question was, to some extent, prompted by me misinterpreting an Astro response (I am a Very Old Dragon and had had a few barrels,  ).

DONT is poor against the Weak NT, no penalty X.
Cappeletti? the 2C bid is a waste.
IMO. Astro is simple & 2H/S, 3C/D are essentially preemptive.

But, then one comes to the responses...  I don't like to think of what happens after, playing DONT, 1NT-X-p-2S...

Is 2S verboten? Surely not! What would I need to bid it?

P.S. I did look at Bridgeguys section on DONT; hmmmm, P is one-suited & it is NOT Spades... ROCL.

My 300th post might as well be to your questions about DONT, gosh I have been posting here too much.    

1) Is 2S forbidden? You are right of course not. Nothing is forbidden... on the FOLLOWING DONT auction....

1NT - X - P - ?

You have a 31 possible bids from pass to 7NT. The most frequent by far is 2C of course as a legal RELAY of the pass/correct type so partner can show his suit. His suit could, in fact be spades (DONT people play 1N-2S as weaker hand than 1N-X-P-2C-P-2S). In addition to 2C, four other bids are fairly common. 2D/2H/2S - all show responders own long suit. If your partner is as aggressive as mine, he/she will use DONT with some ratty 5 card suits, so I am surely happy to show my own fair to good 6 card suit instead of waiting to hear about his/hers. If partner doubles 1NT and I hold S-AKT8xx H-xx D-xxx C-xx I would bid 2S forgoing 2C.

I agree that playing DONT against weak notrump is not best, but your partner can convert your one suited hand double into a penalty double when his hand is suited, and your generally tear them up. If you are really worried about this, you might look up a convention called DONT NO (as in "what is that? Answer, I dont know).... " There the double of 1NT has several meanings, I think the most common is DOUBLE shows both majors (but "both" here is generally a relative term, as the pair that plays this against me will double with 4-3-3-3  hands with 16, 17 points and say 4-3 in the majors, that is both). You may also want to look up Cansino (The_hog corrected my spelling) as another option against weak notrump.