[haver]

is this seq. forcing?

1D - pass - 1H - pass - 1Sp - pass - ??

[inquiry]

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is this seq. forcing?

1D - pass - 1H - pass - 1Sp - pass - ??

The answer is YES and NO, depending upon your agreement. For example, with balanced 19 and a four card major, you may agree to play you will rebid 1S rather and 2NT. This agreement greatly affects the potential meaning of both 1S and 2NT. Thus, if you jump to 2NT with this agreement you deny 4Spades.

With some partners, we have specifically agreed this auction is forcing one round. Misho and I discussed this very sequence last night before we played in a tournment together. On the other hand, if you have not discussed this auction, I would say in general, it is not forcing, but it is very seldom passed.

[bglover]

I play that a jump to 2s is forcing usually and so this can be passed.

A better treatment (actually the one I prefer) is that opener can jump to 2NT with this hand... If responder uses some form of checkback I now bid 3s... showing my 4 card suit this time around. If partner bids 3n I correct to 4h.

Without prior discussion I suggest you play that 1s is not forcing as opener COULD HAVE jumped and thus has limited his hand to less than 18. Responder, with 6 points and 3 spds should be able to bail out early and hope its the best spot.

[luke warm]

i guess a p'ship can play any way they want, but i've never played this sequence as forcing...

[JRG]

Interesting.

The way I learnt (years ago), in both Acol and "Standard American" is:

If responder makes a non-limited bid (a limited bid would be 1NT or a simple raise of opener), then a new suit by opener is UNCONDITIONALLY forcing. The principle being that responder, by bidding a new suit, promises a rebid (except if opener makes a limited bid that allows responder to place the contract). Perhaps this is dated - the requirements for jump-shifting seem to have declined.

Having said that, clearly what the other posters have said (i.e. whatever your partnership agrees to play is up to you) is right on. However, the "old" way of playing this is based on a degree of logic. There can be nice hands that are worth a jump-shift in terms of strength, but for which the bid would distort the hand (i.e. there is no known fit yet and the hand isn't truly two-suited).

There is logic behind playing this forcing or non-forcing depending on whether opener MUST rebid 2NT with a balanced hand of the appropriate range, bypassing one or both majors to do so (in which case presumably the partnership plays Checkback Stayman). However, what about the unbalanced hands that are not really two-suited (e.g. 6 cards in minor, 4 card major)?

Cheers

[the hog]

Oh please, not again! Lol
100% forcing in any of my partnerships. Not forcing in many, (most?) other partnerships. There are too many reasons to discuss why tonight.

[Free]

In my 3 most common partnerships: 33% of the time forcing. In that 1 partnership (the best one) I jump to 2S with 15+HCP, so 1S has an upper limit...

[the hog]

One reason why we play it as forcing is that it makes constructive bidding far easier.

After 1C 1H, we play 2S as a mini splinter, also to play 1C 1H 1S as forcing means you are a level lower for the development of constructve auctions.

There has been a huge discussion on rgb about this recently, which got quite heated at times. People obviously feel strongly one way or the other. Basically you can play any way you want to, as long as your pd knows what you are doing.

John's comment is interesting as in fact I would say the reverse is true - more and more pairs today play it as forcing, wheras in the past it wasn't. John argues the opposite. I guess it depends where you play and learned.

[easy]

Funny i had never heard of this auction as forcing until this thread was started. And to my knowledge have never encountered a pair that played it forcing. I guess as someone else mentioned it depends upon where you play bridge. It's just a matter of partnership understanding.
My question is why would i want 1s to be forcing? And if it is forcing does that mean that a jump too 2s shows 5? Does a bid of 1s guarantee 4+cards in first suit bid? How does responder with marginal values get that message across to opener. And what other implications are there.

If someone here plays it as forcing id be interested in hearing them explain the above. I mite even try it myself if i can determine value of treatment.

[the hog]

What we play is that a balanced hand rebids 1N after its opening eg 1C 1H 1N can certainly have 4S. So 1C 1H 1S guarantees 5C and 4S or a a 4441 with a stiff red suit.

The reason why we - and most players here - play 1S as forcing is that it allows constructive hand dev at a lower level. Many also play mini spl so
1C 1H 2S shows 12-15 with 1435 or similar. You get to bid some nice light games when resp can diagnose a good fit.

With a limited hand responder makes the bid that best describes his hand pattern, eg 1C 1H 1S 1N/2C/2H. The 2C bid could easily be 3, sometimes even 2, because we KNOW that opener has 5, (or 4 in a 4441).

This of course assumes that you don't play the silly stuff that some play - opening a 4333 with 1C and rebidding 1S

I doubt if any of the top tournament players here, (Australia), play it as nf by an unpassed hand; I certainly have never come across any who do. Some lols do.

[bglover]

Easy, did I not see you and your partner play a 3-3 fit on this auction the other day?

Just asking....

[easy]

Quote

Easy, did I not see you and your partner play a 3-3 fit on this auction the other day?

Just asking....

no steve not on an auction like this but...... we have played a 33 fit in the following situation

1d 1H
2H all pass

when opener holds

xx axx ajxx kxxx and i hold

xxx xxx Kx kxxxx

but that doesnt happen very often

[the hog]

Just a question - why on earth would anyone respond 1H on this hand?
Much rather bid 1N. What do you do if pd bids 4H on a strong hand and Axxx of H?

[bearmum]

IN a word NO

UNLESS alerted to OPPS as such because is a special arrangement in whatever system you and P are using

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is this seq. forcing?

1D - pass - 1H - pass - 1Sp - pass - ??

[bearmum]

SO you ALERT it as forcing I hope?

Quote

Oh please, not again! Lol
100% forcing in any of my partnerships. Not forcing in many, (most?) other partnerships. There are too many reasons to discuss why tonight.

[JRG]

Quote

SO you ALERT it as forcing I hope?

Quote

Oh please, not again! Lol
100% forcing in any of my partnerships. Not forcing in many, (most?) other partnerships. There are too many reasons to discuss why tonight.

You are joking, aren't you?

[sartaj1]

Bridge is all about bidding and making games and slams; and not for looking for excuses at getting out in a 1 spade contract.

Whether 1S is forcing or not, responder's simple preference ,rebid or 1NT does not show any extras.
The only gain of 1S NF is when playing 1 spade as it doesnt seem to offer any constructive bidding advantages.

[EricK]

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Bridge is all about bidding and making games and slams; and not for looking for excuses at getting out in a 1 spade contract.

Whether 1S is forcing or not, responder's simple preference ,rebid or 1NT does not show any extras.
The only gain of 1S NF is when playing 1 spade as it doesnt seem to offer any constructive bidding advantages.

two quibbles

1) IMPs is all about making games and slams, MPs is all about beating par.

2) There is a slight constructive advantage in mking 1S NF. When partner doesn't pass your 1S bid, you know he has more than a dead minimum responding hand. This will be of some help on a small number of hands.

For what it is worth, I would only pass the 1S bid on a hand like

Qxx Jxxx x Qxxxx

Eric

[sartaj1]

I would pass too.
Because opposite a pard who hasnt opened a GF, there is hardly any hand with which we can make game.

[the hog]

SO you ALERT it as forcing I hope?

Uh??? Alert it as being forcing. Hardly!