[Sigi_BC84]

inquiry, on Feb 28 2006, 04:16 PM, said:

2D - multi, 2H pass correct, 2NT bal (22)23-24, 3S-force 3NT, 4C = minor smolen, showing 4C and longer D, 4D = set trumps, 4N = RKCB, 5D = 1 or 4 keycards, 5H trump queen ask, 6C = yes, plus the club king.

This is nice. Can you give the full structure after 2NT that you are playing? Our system sucks in this regard, so we need help for improvement.

Thanks,
Sigi

[hrothgar]

Playing MOSCITO

Hand 1

1♣ - 1♦
1♥ - 1♠
1N - 3♣
3♦ - 3♥
3♠ - 3N
4♣ - 4♦
4♥ - 5♣
5♦ - 5♥
5♠ - 6♦
7♦

Here's the critical information

1♣ is strong and 1♦ establishes a game force and denies a 5440
1♥ is a relay showing a non-minimum opening.
Shape is resolved with the 3♥ bid showing 3=1=5=4 shape

At this point in time, opener has a choice of bidding 3♠ asking for AKQ slam points or bidding 4♣ as RKCB in Diamonds. There are advantages to either path. Responder is marrked with a minimum of 6 slam points in his long suits. At a bare minimum, he must have the Ace of Clubs and King of Spades and at least one Black suit Queen. The grand is looking reasonable, regardless of whether responder holds any thing extra. The 4♣ bid allows you to ask about the King of Hearts. The 3♠ lets you focus on Black suit Jacks. Jacks are more likely that a stiff King, so I prefer 3♠

[Sigi_BC84]

hrothgar, on Feb 28 2006, 05:28 PM, said:

1♣ - 1♦
[...]
7♦

Here's the critical information

1♣ is strong and 1♦ establishes a game force and denies a 5440
1♥ is a relay showing a non-minimum opening.
Shape is resolved with the 3♥ bid showing 3=1=5=4 shape

You've placed all the controls including Jacks. Why do you have relay responder declare 7♦ instead of declaring 7NT yourself (with the obvious advantages)?
--Sigi

[hrothgar]

Sigi_BC84, on Feb 28 2006, 07:49 PM, said:

hrothgar, on Feb 28 2006, 05:28 PM, said:

1♣ - 1♦
[...]
7♦

Here's the critical information

1♣ is strong and 1♦ establishes a game force and denies a 5440
1♥ is a relay showing a non-minimum opening.
Shape is resolved with the 3♥ bid showing 3=1=5=4 shape

You've placed all the controls including Jacks. Why do you have RR responder declare 7♦ instead of declaring 7NT yourself (with the obvious advantages)?
--Sigi

I haven't placed the King of Hearts

Once I make the decision to ask for slam points, I can't ask about the stiff King of Hearts. Accordingly, I want to reserve the possibility of a dummy reversal.

[inquiry]

Sigi_BC84, on Feb 28 2006, 11:26 AM, said:

inquiry, on Feb 28 2006, 04:16 PM, said:

2D - multi, 2H pass correct, 2NT bal (22)23-24, 3S-force 3NT, 4C = minor smolen, showing 4C and longer D, 4D = set trumps, 4N = RKCB, 5D = 1 or 4 keycards, 5H trump queen ask, 6C = yes, plus the club king.

This is nice. Can you give the full structure after 2NT that you are playing? Our system sucks in this regard, so we need help for improvement.

Thanks,
Sigi

I think this 2NT structure is ripped off from Chris Ryal of the paradox bid pages on his cavendish pages or maybe from Glen Ashton from his www.bridgematters.com site. Actually it is probably Chris, because I play Glen's 1NT structure and it is much more complicated than what I play for 2NT.

Here is a link to a web page with this structure. I use kantar RKCB so strong hand and weak hand responses to blackwood are different. That played a role on this hand.

2NT structure

[Sigi_BC84]

hrothgar, on Feb 28 2006, 05:51 PM, said:

I haven't placed the King of Hearts

OK, forgot about that. He just might or might not be there, since you can see the 6QP already.

Quote

Once I make the decision to ask for slam points, I ask about the stiff King of Hearts.  Accordingly, I want to reserve the possibility of a dummy reversal.

I'm sorry, but I don't understand, can you elaborate further? Really interested in this matter.
--Sigi

[hrothgar]

Sigi_BC84, on Feb 28 2006, 08:00 PM, said:

hrothgar, on Feb 28 2006, 05:51 PM, said:

I haven't placed the King of Hearts

OK, forgot about that. He just might or might not be there, since you can see the 6QP already.

Quote

Once I make the decision to ask for slam points, I ask about the stiff King of Hearts.  Accordingly, I want to reserve the possibility of a dummy reversal.

I'm sorry, but I don't understand, can you elaborate further? Really interested in this matter.
--Sigi

Significant typo in the original reply now corrected

[extrasolid]

1. our polsih club-system
1♣ (polish) - 2♦ (GF, 5+ Dia)
4♦ (RCKB) - 4♠ (0/3 KC)
5♥ (King of Hearts?) - 6♣ (King of hearts+spades, not quenn in club)
6♠ (queen of spades?) - 7♦ (yes+Jay of clubs+may be more Js i cant show)
7NT

2.
1♠ - 2♦
2♠ - 2NT (forcing)
3♣ - 3♦
3NT - and than it gets difficult

Uli

[inquiry]

extrasolid, on Feb 28 2006, 12:41 PM, said:

1. our polsih club-system
1♣ (polish) - 2♦ (GF, 5+ Dia)
4♦ (RCKB) - 4♠ (0/3 KC)
5♥ (King of Hearts?) - 6♣ (King of hearts+spades, not quenn in club)
6NT (queen of spades?) - 7♦ (yes)
7NT

The specific king asking bid (5♥) is a useful tool, but your usage of it is fairly foreign to me. Someuse 5NT to ask (or here maybe 4NT), Some use a specific suit ask by bidding the suit like you did (5♥), but then the responses range from nothing in suit up to KQ in different steps. Here your response not only seemed to show heart king, but also spade king and no club queen. All that in three steps (5S, 5N, 6C)...

I wonder, what would 5S show over 5H? How about 5NT and 6D? How do you show no heart king? heart king but no spade king, heart king, spade king and club queen? spade king, no heart king? no heart king but a singleton heart? etc

I also am wondering, usually after asking for kings, a specific card ask if found is enough for grand slam. Here you needed a lot more. Is this typical?

Finally, 6NT as an ask for the spade queen is fairly cute..but is that right? I mean, maybe opener wants to play in 6NT. The spade king has been shown already, what would six spades here be instead of 6NT?

Thanks for clarifying these for me.

Ben

[joshs]

Playing TOSR:

Hand 1 (Easy):
1C(15+)-3D(3154, 9+)-3H(Relay)-4C(13+, 4 controls)-7N (has to have a black Q)

Note this auction assumes that responder would downgrade KJx K Jxxx AJxx as they should.

Hand 2: (Hard)
1H(4+S, 0-3 H, 10-14ish)-1S(12+ ART)-2D(5+D, 4+C, 12-14ish, 3+ controls)-2H(GFing relay)-3D(5314)-3H(relay)-3N(4 controls)-5D(slam try)-5S(accepts slam try, shows 1 keycard. The acceptance is in deference to having the maximum 14 count)-6D. Its arguable if the relayer should be making a slam try here....

Alternative auction after 3N:
4C(relay)-4H(A/K of spades, AK of clubs or neither)-Guess what to do...

[BillFinque]

Hand 1
Intervening passes

1♣ (16+HCP)        2♣ 8+HCP; 5+♦
2♦ (asks A's; 3+♦)      2♥ One A
2♠ (asks K's)       3♦ (2 K's, same color)
3♥ (asks Q's)       3♠ (1 Q)
At this point you can count 13 tricks
2 or 3 spades
3 hearts
5 diamonds
2 or 3 clubs

7 NT

Hand 2

1♠ (10-15 HCP; 5+♠)    2♦ (GF 5+♦)
2NT (10-13; hate this treatment)    4♦ (great ♦ still GF)
5♣ (have good cards here)      5♦ (no spade A or heart K; OK)
Pass


Bill

[Sigi_BC84]

hrothgar, on Feb 28 2006, 06:03 PM, said:

Quote

Once I make the decision to ask for slam points, I ask about the stiff King of Hearts.  Accordingly, I want to reserve the possibility of a dummy reversal.

Significant typo in the original reply now corrected

Now it makes sense, thanks :-).
--Sigi

[extrasolid]

inquiry, on Feb 28 2006, 01:31 PM, said:

extrasolid, on Feb 28 2006, 12:41 PM, said:

1. our polsih club-system
1♣ (polish) - 2♦ (GF, 5+ Dia)
4♦ (RCKB) - 4♠ (0/3 KC)
5♥ (King of Hearts?) - 6♣ (King of hearts+spades, not quenn in club)
6NT (queen of spades?) - 7♦ (yes)
7NT

[...]
I wonder, what would 5S show over 5H? How about 5NT and 6D? How do you show no heart king? heart king but no spade king, heart king, spade king and club queen? spade king, no heart king? no heart king but a singleton heart? etc

I also am wondering, usually after asking for kings, a specific card ask if found is enough for grand slam. Here you needed a lot more. Is this typical?

[...]

Thanks for clarifying these for me.

Ben

The 5♥ bid as kingaskingbid for hearts is by acident, .

We use "spiral scan".

After 4♠ (0/3 KC)

4NT asks for queen of trumps , 5♣ for king of clubs, 5♦ is signoff. So 5♥ is the next step to ask for king of hearts.

5♠: no king of hearts
5NT: King of hearts but not King of spades
6♣: King of hearts and spades but not queen of club
6♦: Kings of hearts+spades, queens of club+diamond, not queen of hearts

next cards that would be shown are queens up the line, the Js.

So after 6♣ 6♦ is signoff again, 6♥ asks for queen of hearts and 6♠ aks for queen of spades). Now first step denies, second say: "indeed, i have the card you asked for but not the next in the line" and so on. So 7♦ shows the queen of spades and the Jay of clubs. If there are more jays you cant show because then you have to bid 8 in trumps, lol.

We use this spiral scan after 1M - 2NT also:
at first you show strength and distribution, P can relais für single if some is shown and after that relais as RCKB. After that asking for queen of trumps (if it is not shown or denied) then spiral scan (Kings, Queens, Jay). You often can asks for special kings before reaching the full game.

Our system is far from beeing perfect as moscito or things like that. But if you can count to 5 or 6 you can bid it (most of the times as you can see from my mistake).

Uli

[mghmaine]

1) 1C=17+ 2C= Ds, positive
3D = big D fit 3H = Q
3S= Q 4C=Q
4H=Q 4S = Q
5C=Q 5H =Q
7NT

2) 2S= 5+S,4+C, "anti-canape" 6S allowed only if min or sub-min
2NT= relay
3H = 5-3-1-4 decent opener
6D