[luke warm]

the posts about 5h raised a question in my mind... cohen (and others) say the 5M means "i have 11 tricks and i'm only missing the A and K of this suit, which i deem to be trumps"... i take it nobody else plays that?

[jchiu]

Jlall, on Feb 22 2006, 11:07 PM, said:

jchiu, on Feb 22 2006, 06:02 PM, said:

In real life: 4♥ WTP?
On forums: 1♠ WTH?

Then pass pards 4H splinter

At least someone's on the same wavelength.

Anyways, opening 5♥ for anything other than solid
suit missing the AK is an atrocity. The last time I
remotely considered using that as an "extension" of
4♥, I had already consumed two bottles of wine.

[hrothgar]

jchiu, on Feb 23 2006, 04:55 AM, said:

Anyways, opening 5♥ for anything other than solid
suit missing the AK is an atrocity.  The last time I
remotely considered using that as an "extension" of
4♥, I had already consumed two bottles of wine.

Please consider the following:

Justin stated that he had never seen a 5♥ opening before I sprung one on him. I suspect that there might have been some exaggeration for effect, but the basic principle still stands. 5♥ as an asking bid for the Ace or King of your long suit is incredibly rare.

First of all, you need the other three suit controlled

Second you need a suit that is long/strong enough to set as the trump suit

Finally, despite the fact that you have an 8 card trump suit or some such, you're asking partner if he has a trump honor

Using 5♥ to show some other hand type might be an atrocity, but at least you get to open 5♥ once and a while. I suspect that a reasonable case can be made to use 5♥ as some form of obstructive bid,

[Echognome]

If anyone was curious, the hand was roughly as follows:

Scoring: IMP

3♥ - 4♦* - P - 6♠!
P - P - X - All Pass

---

*Diamonds and Spades

This was one of our biggest disaster boards imaginable. I misbid as West, forgetting that we play non-leaping michael's. Partner then decides his hand is worth 6♠. 1400 later we both couldn't really say anything. Ouch!

The result wasn't really relevant to the problem. In the post mortem people were discussing what South should bid. I said "looks an obvious 4♥ bid to me." People looked at me like I was crazy. Thanks for bringing back my sanity.

[han]

You are sane Matt, as for the 3H bidder...

[FrancesHinden]

It works perfectly well to play a 5♥ opening as merely being an asking, not a showing bid: partner is requested to raise with the A or K, and to bid 7 with both.

You can then open it on a pre-emptive hand as well if you want (particularly if you have the AK of the suit).

[HeartA]

Hannie, on Feb 22 2006, 06:08 PM, said:

Either 1♥ or 4♥. My first second reaction was 1♥, but now that I think about the colors 4♥ seems better.

1♥ for me.

[MickyB]

FrancesHinden, on Feb 24 2006, 03:23 PM, said:

It works perfectly well to play a 5♥ opening as merely being an asking, not a showing bid: partner is requested to raise with the A or K, and to bid 7 with both.

You can then open it on a pre-emptive hand as well if you want (particularly if you have the AK of the suit).

That seems to make it a little difficult to bid slam when it is right! Not that I am saying that there aren't hands for it, of course there are, but surely fewer than a purely preemptive 5M opening.