[gwnn]

Scoring: MP

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p-1♦-2NT*-?

*:54+ in clubs and any M

It seems everyone agrees on doubling with this hand, which should show "penalty of at least one suit of opps' " or "card showing" or something along those lines. Remember, he's an almost pickup partner. Actually, that was my choice also. BUT:

p-1♦-2NT*-X
3♥-4♦-p-?

ps: Yes, I know you and your pd have specific agreements on this sequence. But "this is the cestlavie".

[hrothgar]

4♥ seems pretty obvious.

You have three first round controls and decent enough support for partner's Diamonds. (Given that partner voluntarily bid 4♦, xx is damn good support)

[neilkaz]

4♥ for me with 3 aces. PD should have no worse than a hand that would open 1♦ and happily jump to 3♦ over our 1/1 response so slam is quite possible.

.. neilkaz ..

[pclayton]

3♥ was probably pass or correct, no? Does a hand with both majors really need to pass and convert 3♣ to 3♥?

How do we know that partner won't take 4♥ as natural? It seems the cuebidders aren't taking this into account.

[whereagles]

phil:.. doh! since 3♥ was not alerted, it's supposed to be natural

Ok, ok we all know 3♥ was pass/correct. In that case the safe way out of this is to just ask for aces and kings and bid 6/7♦.

[the hog]

Well, serves you right for doubling. If I made the "automatic" mistake of doubling I would now bid 4H.

[inquiry]

PArtner's 4♦ has to be an weak offensive-hand, and nice diamonds. I would like to try for slam here...but..... If I bid 4NT as RKCB, but after I said i wanted to defend their contract, he bid on. He is most likely to take 4NT as natural. So it is 4♥ for me, or if I decide I will not stop short of slam, a creative leap to 5M as exclusion blackwood. The blackwood root, however is unnecessary, IF LHO ISN"T JOKING WITH HIS 4♥ BID for we surely will have at least one club loser. Where is partners club losers going if LHO didn't psyche 4♥? I can win three tricks in my hand, and if partner needs to ruff clubs, LHO maybe overruffing....

But can partner have a club stack? Doubtful, as he might have passed 3♥. Can partner have a spade stack? Doubtful again for the same reason. So partner is likely 7 or 8 D. So, I will just make the practical bid here. 5♦. Even if partner has a nice hand like 7D-AKQJxxx and and Kx is a side suit, we have only 11 tricks. And his hand can hardly be be better than that. Even if he has Kxx of clubs, the third round club ruff might get over-ruffed. Sigh...

[gwnn]

Ben got it right:

Scoring: MP

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p-1♦-2NT*-X
3♥-4♦-p-5♦-
All pass

3♥ was arguably a risky bid, even love all at MP's. What it certainly got right was meddling with our offensive bidding -- it is fair enough to interpret pd's voluntary bid to the 4 level as "I would have jump rebid if not interrupted", but somehow I feel it should be made on weaker hands, too (or only weaker hands, unwilling to penalize). I don't necessarily agree making it on such a weak suit, though, as our hands seem to be misfit. I think 4♦ is (or should be) more of a weakness showing bid than not, but should show a nicer suit.

The biggest problem is that my p misplayed it- RHO lead the ♥Q, giving him the chance to make 6 (trump finesse, ♥ ruffing finesse), but he chose neither the ruffing finesse and neither the obvious ♣ ruff. He chose to go down (two rounds of trumps, Ace of clubs killed, no way of making). Of course, my earlier misplays might have had an effect on him.

[Robert]

Hi everyone

Pass is also a bid. If you like to bid, take a normal tempo to just say, "Pass."

Weak hands should not be bidding at the four level without being forced to bid.

The 3H bid did not interfere with your bidding. Your methods interfered with your bidding. If you rebid 4Ds with junk, what do you rebid with a 'better'(much?) hand containing just one Ace? RKC or 5Ds?

Gee, the hands are a misfit, you still want to bid at the 4 level and now you have partner bid either RKC or 5Ds 'thinking' that you might hold a decent hand?

Phil 'If' you held a heart suit that could stand alone at the 4 level, wouldn't you have bid 3Hs with that holding. If you have a fit, they have a fit, why wait for them to bid 4/5 of a suit before you show long strong hearts?

Regards,
Robert

[bid_em_up]

I dont agree with 4♦ which wasn't an option listed in the poll.

However, I would also expect that partner would pass 3♥ with a better than normal opening bid and that 4♦ will be a weak hand with long diamonds and no desire to defend anything. (A silly position, imo, since he does not KNOW what my hand is). That said, I think I put slam out of the equation, and simply bid 5♦ and hope that his declaring is better than his bidding, but I wont hold my breath on that either.

[gwnn]

It wasn't an option because my pd's bid wasn't the object of the poll?

As I said 4♦ should probably have been the same hand except AKJTxxx (even without ♥K)? With this hand maybe 2♦ weak 2 was better?

[MFA]

5♣, good raise to 5♦. Then pd can look at his hand.
4M would be natural.

[inquiry]

If my partner passed 3♥ and then I doubled 3♥ and he bid 4♦, I would think he had a BETTER hand than if he bid 4♦ immediately. You need to separate weak distributional hands from stronger distributional hands. After the double of 2NT, a forcing pass situation is set up, so pass then pull is stronger. I think 4♦ is right with the given hand.

[FrancesHinden]

The_Hog, on Dec 5 2006, 03:13 AM, said:

Well, serves you right for doubling. If I made the "automatic" mistake of doubling I would now bid 4H.

I don't see why doubling is such an 'automatic' mistake.
If partner has the minors, we will get a large doubled penalty.

Otherwise, if we bid 3M now partner may be confused and either think it isn't forcing, or think it shows a better suit, or something... because we would have doubled were we prepared to defend.

[FrancesHinden]

inquiry, on Dec 8 2006, 04:23 AM, said:

If my partner passed 3♥ and then I doubled 3♥ and he bid 4♦, I would think he had a BETTER hand than if he bid 4♦ immediately. You need to separate weak distributional hands from stronger distributional hands. After the double of 2NT, a forcing pass situation is set up, so pass then pull is stronger. I think 4♦ is right with the given hand.

I agree with all of that except the final sentence.

Partner has a perfectly acceptable opening bid with Hx in hearts. If we want to defend 3Hx he should be happy to cooperate. Hence on the actual hand I think partner has a clear pass of 3H. We likely have finished up defending either 3Sx or 4Cx both of which look healthier places to be than a dodgy 5D contract.

p.s. and if partner decides he doesn't fancy defending 3Sx I think he should pull our double to 3NT which must imply this type of hand. 3NT is making quite a few tricks assuming you get diamonds right (which you will after the overcall).

[marcD]

Over 4D I would bid 6D since i do not think we can properly investigate 7. The risk of misunderstanding on the meaning of 4NT is real therefore i bid what i think i can make. We are not in a forcing sequence so pass and pull from partner is not stronger than a direct 4D . With his pile of junk partner should pass , 4D shows an offensive hand with good diamonds and a fair opener