[joshs]

luke warm, on Feb 3 2006, 07:23 PM, said:

mghmaine, on Feb 2 2006, 08:54 PM, said:

When I pass 1NT and my LHO balances with, say, 2H,  I want partner to know I have only 4 when I now bid 2S. 
That, added to the many comments about not knowing if a fit or not, leads me always to transfer with 5.

i admit i don't understand this post... why would you pass 1nt and then bid 2s (with a 4 card suit) over 2h?

The auction:
1N-P-P-2H
P-P-2S

Shows 4 spades and a longer minor (If you play penalty x's and not negative x's here it might be 4144 instead).


A typical hand:
Qxxx xx KJTxx xx
Partner is expected to bid 2N in seach of your minor with 2 spades or with 3 spades but length in both minors.

Josh

[joshs]

Lets suppose you are playing a 14-16 or 15-17 NT, the opponents are playing DONT, you are NV, and your hand is: xx xxxxx xxx xxx

I think passing will make it harder for them to find their spade fit (if they have one), let alone game.

Other than that, I don't pass 1N with a 5 card major much....

Josh

[luke warm]

joshs, on Feb 3 2006, 07:57 PM, said:

The auction:
1N-P-P-2H
P-P-2S

Shows 4 spades and a longer minor (If you play penalty x's and not negative x's here it might be 4144 instead).


A typical hand:
Qxxx xx KJTxx xx
Partner is expected to bid 2N in seach of your minor with 2 spades or with 3 spades but length in both minors.

Josh

sorry josh, i still don't understand.. are you saying that the opps' passing in 2h makes it more likely that partner has 17 than 15? and if so, does it matter that much? sure you might stumble on a 4/4 spade fit, but it seems equally likely you're in a 4/2 fit

if the sequence you showed promises 4 spades and a longer minor, then i can barely see a reason for bidding (at MPs), but i don't recall that being the meaning.. with the hand you showed, i'd much prefer to be playing some form of garbage puppet stayman.. then bid 2c and pass anything

[mghmaine]

Josh said:
A typical hand:
Qxxx xx KJTxx xx
Partner is expected to bid 2N in seach of your minor with 2 spades or with 3 spades but length in both minors.
++++++++++++++
This is a good hand, but actually I'm not that sophisticated. Partner bids 2NT when 2S doesn't seem right. I might well now bid a minor if I have one, that is true.
There are many hands at MPs where one doesn't want to defend 2H in the auction 1NT-P-P-2H. I'm not going to adopt garbage puppet etc when just reasonable bidding will do.

[luke warm]

Quote

I'm not going to adopt garbage puppet etc when just reasonable bidding will do.

puppet stayman isn't unreasonable bidding, in my view... the garbage aspect doesn't detract from that... i think it adds to it...

[helene_t]

Zia (in his "Bridge my way") says you shouldn't transfer to hearts when you won't like the opps to bid 2♠, which they can often do easier after a transfer than after a pass. So I guess it should depend on your spades as well as scoring and vulnerability, what agreement you have after opps (pre)balance, and what defense opps play against your 1NT.

[mghmaine]

puppet stayman isn't unreasonable bidding, in my view... the garbage aspect doesn't detract from that... i think it adds to it...
+++++++++++
OK then: Qxxx, xx, xx, KJxxx. The garbage puppetty thing works only with Ds. But really, I wasn't disparaging puppet, which I play myself (though always invitational). I am just saying I am passing with the above, then bidding 4S over a 2H balance, and in doing so I am pleased that partner knows I have 4 spades only.

[joshs]

luke warm, on Feb 3 2006, 08:46 PM, said:

joshs, on Feb 3 2006, 07:57 PM, said:

The auction:
1N-P-P-2H
P-P-2S

Shows 4 spades and a longer minor (If you play penalty x's and not negative x's here it might be 4144 instead).


A typical hand:
Qxxx xx KJTxx xx
Partner is expected to bid 2N in seach of your minor with 2 spades or with 3 spades but length in both minors.

Josh

sorry josh, i still don't understand.. are you saying that the opps' passing in 2h makes it more likely that partner has 17 than 15? and if so, does it matter that much? sure you might stumble on a 4/4 spade fit, but it seems equally likely you're in a 4/2 fit

if the sequence you showed promises 4 spades and a longer minor, then i can barely see a reason for bidding (at MPs), but i don't recall that being the meaning.. with the hand you showed, i'd much prefer to be playing some form of garbage puppet stayman.. then bid 2c and pass anything

The reason to bid is that you expect to go plus playing in 2S or in your 5 card minor, and you expect to go minus in 2 hearts. You are not interested in game, just contesting the part score. At mps this is correct even if you were going plus defending 2H but have a bigger plus available somewhere else. But this bid is pretty clear even at IMPS, its probably about a 3 IMP swing on average and more than that if partner had a penalty x of 2H available and didn't make one.

And yes you might stumble onto a 4-2 spade fit - that why this bid guarantees someplace else to play, so partner never passes it holding only 2 spades.

Josh

[han]

I agree that 2S over 1NT-p-p-2H is automatic with that hand and a clear winner.