Passing or pulling Xs of high level preempts...

#1 akhare

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Posted 2006-January-24, 15:39

Hi folks,

What guidelines do you folks use while deciding whether to pass or pull Xs of high level preempts?

Also, what would you do on this particular hand?

Scoring: IMP

LHO deals:

(5♣) - X - (P) - ??

Would you bid any differently at:

1) All vulnerable
2) Unfavourable vul.

Atul

foobar on BBO

#2 DJNeill

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Posted 2006-January-24, 16:14

Hi foo,

I've heard it said that over a (4S)-X you pull only with a 6-crd suit. Over (5m)-X you probably pull even less. And frankly, Todd's doubles of 4M or higher tend to be an expression of the contract's chances, even more so after some bad boards. Know thy partner.

Todd'll say I'm wrong.

Later,
Dan

#3 joshs

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Posted 2006-January-24, 16:37

Well I pull with:
a. a very offensive hand OR
b. A mildly offensive hand, but slam interest

Otherwise I take the plus.

In this case you have a mildly offensive hand, but no slam interest (i.e. no reason to expect to go plus at the 5 level.)

Josh

#4 000002

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Posted 2006-January-24, 16:45

DJNeill, on Jan 24 2006, 05:14 PM, said:

no.

Over a high level(assume it's A) preempt, pull the double with the hand consisted in a certain offendsive tricks:A-1.when you decide to bid on A+1 level, of course, it need (A+1)-1=A.

for example:bidding:4♠-(x)-p-(?)you have to pull when you hold:
x
Kxx
KQxx
Kxxxx
The offendsive tricks is 6+: 3 on ♣,2 on ♦,1 on ♥, and some extra.so you have to pull,bid (6-1)=5,ofcz bid slam sometimes for it's extra.

Changing ♦Q to ♠,it's the verge to passout.Even though holding 2236 shape,many player prefer to pass it under favorable VULnerable.

#5 joshs

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Posted 2006-January-24, 16:48

Oh yeah, I also pull if I have a certain slam, but no trump trick, even if close to balanced. E.G. AKxx KJTx Axxx x since down 2 or 3 will be a bad score.

Its worth discussing what the difference between 5N and 6C is...

Josh

#6 Guest_Jlall_*

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Posted 2006-January-24, 17:09

I've posted before some general rules. Over 4S or higher:

1) Never pull with a balanced hand. Doesn't matter what strength your hand is, don't do it.

2) Whenever you pull, always be expecting to make. Often partner has them beat in his own hand so to pull you need to expect a make. If you pull with a yarb, be aware partner might bid slam.

After this, try to look at what kind of honors you have. If they are in your short suit, or are Qs/Jacks/few aces, they are defensive. Try to pass with defensive values. Points in the opps suit are a big warning for bidding.

Pretty much don't bid very often. When you do you should have distribution, offensive values, and an expectation of making. Remember partner has a VERY wide range of shapes with these Xs, so over 4S X try and bid 4N to suggest 2 places to play whenever possible as opposed to bidding a suit.

Here your values are defensive, and you don't expect to make 5S. It may be a 5-2 fit. I would definitely pass.

#7 whereagles

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Posted 2006-January-24, 17:20

I don't feel like passing, so I'm going for 5♠.

#8 Kalvan14

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Posted 2006-January-24, 17:41

I can imagine a lots of hands opposed to which the posted hand is good for a slam; there are even more hands where there is no 5-level contract foir either side. I pass, and take the plus.

#9 mikeh

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Posted 2006-January-24, 18:09

I echo Justin's post: and only want to add that there is an old adage about dealing with preempts: when you are fixed, stay fixed. That is, after they preempt and partner doubles, you may well feel that passing will result in you missing a better contract, but unless you are very confident that you can reach that better spot, stay fixed by passing and taking the sure plus rather than risk guessing wrong.

On the example hand, partner would need a monster to make any major 5-level bid okay, and even then, it is easy to construct hands on which you cannot find the best spot: would any of us not double 5♣ with Ax AQJx AKxxx Qx? How are we finding 5♥?

Apart from this factor, remember that a high-level preempt significantly changes the original expectation about distribution. A slam that requires only a 3-2 trump break is, in the absence of other information, approximately 68% likely to make. Create an 8-1 or 8-2 split in a side suit, and that percentage drops markedly. So one generally needs more power after a preempt than without one.

It might be interesting to see what posters think is the weakest hand on which they would pull this double. In particular, Fred, if you read this, your thoughts would be illuminating: I don't get out much these days and so may be out of touch (if I ever was in touch) with current tournament practice

'one of the great markers of the advance of human kindness is the howls you will hear from the Men of God' Johann Hari

#10 keylime

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Posted 2006-January-24, 21:18

I agree with Mike and Justin under the guises of taking what is likely certain.

"Champions aren't made in gyms, champions are made from something they have deep inside them - a desire, a dream, a vision. They have to have last-minute stamina, they have to be a little faster, they have to have the skill and the will. But the will must be stronger than the skill. " - M. Ali

#11 Winstonm

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Posted 2006-January-24, 21:32

Bid any time you clearly dislike your partner and are ready for a new one or any time one of the opponents is a ex-wife and you are late on alimony payments.

Winston

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#12 Chamaco

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Posted 2006-January-25, 03:32

Thanks folks, as many of you know, the topic of how to handle 5 and 6 level decisions is one of those most helpful bidding topics to me.

Just another question: could you post some example hands that would justify pard's double of 5C ?
(in other words, what's the minimum strength of thgis double, with a. balanced shape; b. unbalanced shape)

And, if opps open 5C, how do you handle strong 55 2 suiters ♥+♠ and M+♦ ?

"Bridge is like dance: technique's important but what really matters is not to step on partner's feet !"

#13 000002

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Posted 2006-January-25, 09:33

the example (1):
Qxxxx
xx
Qxxxx
x

Follwing (4♣)-x-(p)-?,or 1♣-x-4♣-?,did anyone refuse to bid 4♠?

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