[akhare]

lowerline, on Jan 24 2006, 10:47 AM, said:

In Symmetric Relay (the system) one asks for the number of controls after the shape is known. In Moscito one asks for the number of AKQ-points. This has consequences on what you deny during denial cuebidding.

Anyone tried both approaches? Which do you prefer?

Here's an unedited post by John Sheehan (of Prism Signals fame) about his GOFISH alterative to DCB when using RPs (aka AKQ points). It looked pretty playable the last time I looked:

Hi all,

Dlr: W
Vul: EW
Auction: Moscito Variation

West East
A863 K5
A652 K8
Q A4
KQJ5 A876432

1C 2D
2H 2S
2N 3C
3D 3H 2=2=2=7.
3S(a) 4S 10 relay points.
4N( 5S No. Go Fish!
5N© 6C Same rank.
7C

(a) 'Number of Relay points?' (A=3 K=2 Q=1)
( 'Do you have any queens?'
© 'Tell me about your two kings.'

Note(: The first step after the relay points response
asks,'Do you have any queens?'

In response to the queen ask:
Step 1 = 1 Q.
Step 2 = 2 Q's.
Step 3 = 3 Q's.
Step 4 = 0 Q's. Go Fish! (or 4 Q's)

If The number of relay points is known; and,
The number of queens is known; then,
The exact number of aces and kings is known.


Note©: 'Tell me about your kings.'

The first step after the number of queens response
asks about location of kings.

(If you are more interested in queens
than kings, skip to the second step to
ask about the location of queens.)

In response to, 'Tell me about your kings.'

To show one or three kings, stop at the bid that
corresponds in the scanning order
to the one suit with (or without) the king.


If two kings are held; then
Step 1 = 2 K's of the same Rank
Step 2 = 2 K's of the same Color
Step 3 = 2 K's of the same Shape (C/H D/S)




Dlr: W
Vul: EW
Auction: Moscito Variation

West East
A7 KQ85
AQ3 K852
AQJ874 K6
J4 A96

1C 2D
2H 2S
2N 3C
3D 3H 4=4=3=2
3S(a) 4S 10 relay points.
4N( 5C 1 Queen.
5D© 5N No club king.
6C(d) 6D Spade queen.
7N

(a) 'Number of Relay points?' (A=3 K=2 Q=1)
( 'Do you have any queens?'
© 'Tell me about your three kings.'
(d) 'What about that queen?'

Is Go Fish! for relay points a practical approach to solving the problem
of discoverying and pinpointing honors in slam auctions?

Johnny Sheehan
www.prismsignals.com

[david_c]

A question for those of you that play AKQ-points: how do you adjust for honours being in short suits? (For example I've been playing that a singleton K or Q counts zero, but a singleton A is still 3.) I'm particularly interested in the value of a doubleton queen. I'm beginning to think that a doubleton queen should not count if it's in a long two-suited hand (ie. 5521 or 6520). For more balanced types I'm not so sure. Any thoughts?

[Free]

We play that singleton K or Q doesn't count, but Aces do. However, in some situations we can still show 'a' singleton honour (K or Q, not the Ace). For example in 7411's, you can first show high shortage to show K or Q in the lowest singleton. After semipositives you can still show more than 5 SlamPoints to show singleton K or Q. If opps double a bid in our short suit, we can RDbl to show a tophonour. But in most situations we just can't...

When you really need to know about the singleton holding, you have to use another slam method (RKC + SAB's)

Doubletons count like normal:
KQ = 3
Kx = 2
Qx = 1
Doubletons with a honour can be interesting (especially Kx when partner has Axxxxx and can ruff the suit free), so we don't adjust. Qx can be enough to make partner's suit high (AKJxxx).

It's not perfect in all situations, but it's ok in most cases