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How Do You Bid Black 5-5 Hands? What is you first bid as dealer at MP?

Poll: Which hand(s) would you open with 1 club? (33 member(s) have cast votes)

Which hand(s) would you open with 1 club?

  1. none (25 votes [75.76%])

    Percentage of vote: 75.76%

  2. #1 (2 votes [6.06%])

    Percentage of vote: 6.06%

  3. #2 (1 votes [3.03%])

    Percentage of vote: 3.03%

  4. #3 (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  5. #4 (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  6. #1 and #2 (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  7. #1 and #3 (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  8. #1 and #4 (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  9. #2 and #3 (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  10. #2 and #4 (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  11. #3 and #4 (2 votes [6.06%])

    Percentage of vote: 6.06%

  12. #2 #3 and #4 (2 votes [6.06%])

    Percentage of vote: 6.06%

  13. other (1 votes [3.03%])

    Percentage of vote: 3.03%

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#1 User is offline   jdeegan 

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Posted 2006-January-22, 10:12

#1
Scoring: MP

???
Minimum with broken suits

#2
Scoring: MP

???
Minimum with good playing strength

#3
Scoring: MP

???
Strong

#4
Scoring: MP

???
Strongest

Playing SAYC, which, if any, of these hands would you open with 1♣
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#2 User is offline   pclayton 

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Posted 2006-January-22, 11:28

Most would say none, but #1 is OK for me to open 1♣.

By the way, I wouldn't call #2 a minimum.
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#3 User is offline   Blofeld 

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  Posted 2006-January-22, 11:51

I first learned a coherent system out of an ancient book on Acol where the system bid on 5-5 in blacks was always 1♣, and this may have influenced me since.

In non-competitive auctions the weaker hands (e.g. #1) gain most from being opened 1♣. But I think that in competitive auctions it is the stronger hands that gain as they can introduce both of their suits more easily. I have a possibly slightly irrational fear that any auction is about to turn competitive, and so would avoid opening 1♣ on #1, but consider it on hand #2 and lean towards it on hands #3 amd #4.
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#4 User is offline   Free 

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Posted 2006-January-22, 12:11

clear and simple: none...
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#5 User is offline   pigpenz 

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Posted 2006-January-22, 12:25

for me none, even though all books used to say open 1♣ i could never really understand it but then they way they bid 60 yrs ago didnt make much sense either ;)
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#6 User is offline   temp3600 

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Posted 2006-January-22, 12:59

I would open all four of them 1S. I wouldn't mind opening #4 1C.
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#7 User is offline   han 

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Posted 2006-January-22, 14:27

None for me. Partners please read this.
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.

- hrothgar
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Posted 2006-January-22, 15:14

none.
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#9 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2006-January-22, 16:37

No reason to distort distribution. None.
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."
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#10 User is offline   Kalvan14 

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Posted 2006-January-22, 16:38

None
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#11 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2006-January-22, 17:55

Give me 1 more club on all, and its still none
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#12 User is offline   fifee 

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Posted 2006-January-22, 18:07

Fluffy, on Jan 22 2006, 06:55 PM, said:

Give me 1 more club on all, and its still none

Give me one more club and I will open 1C. Distorting distribution is counterproductive. Esecially on 65 hands, you must give partner an accurate picture if you want to wind up in the best spot.
Lord, help me choose the words I use and make them short and sweet.
We never know from day to day which ones we'll have to eat.
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#13 User is offline   fifee 

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Posted 2006-January-22, 18:08

Btw, always 1S opener on all the hands as shown.
Lord, help me choose the words I use and make them short and sweet.
We never know from day to day which ones we'll have to eat.
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#14 User is offline   Blofeld 

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  Posted 2006-January-22, 20:23

Well, obviously it depends on what partner expects. If the system bid is 1♠ with 5-5 in blacks then I'll bid 1♠ on all of them. Considered the question more a case of what should be allowed. I'm opening 1♣ on the stronger hands iff this isn't a distortion of distribution.
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#15 User is offline   david_c 

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Posted 2006-January-22, 20:28

I'm bidding 1♠ on all of them too. I don't object to 1♣ in principle, but I'd want weaker spades for that. Swap the black suits in #1 and you could persuade me to open 1♣.
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#16 User is offline   han 

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Posted 2006-January-22, 22:28

I agree with that David. Change the black suits, make the spade queen into the 2 and I might open 1C too (as disgusting as it is to me).
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.

- hrothgar
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#17 User is offline   FrancesHinden 

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Posted 2006-January-23, 06:35

1♠ on all of them.

Historically, opening 1♣ was recommended with 5-5 in the blacks, because in an uncontested auction you could open a club and rebid spades twice in an economic fashion.

Now we open 1♠, because we don't get many uncontested auctions. If I have a weak hand, I won't have time to bid my hand out in such detail and I need to get the spades in first. If I have a strong hand, opponents may pre-empt, and I need to get the spades in first.

It is possible to have the partnership agreement that we open 1♣ on strong 5-5s. If I have that agreement, that's fine. But when the standard agreement is to open them 1♠ I would never break it. When I have a strong hand it is most important not to lie about my distribution.
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#18 User is offline   EricK 

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Posted 2006-January-23, 12:12

FrancesHinden, on Jan 23 2006, 12:35 PM, said:

1♠ on all of them.

Historically, opening 1♣ was recommended with 5-5 in the blacks, because in an uncontested auction you could open a club and rebid spades twice in an economic fashion.

Now we open 1♠, because we don't get many uncontested auctions. If I have a weak hand, I won't have time to bid my hand out in such detail and I need to get the spades in first. If I have a strong hand, opponents may pre-empt, and I need to get the spades in first.

It is possible to have the partnership agreement that we open 1♣ on strong 5-5s. If I have that agreement, that's fine. But when the standard agreement is to open them 1♠ I would never break it. When I have a strong hand it is most important not to lie about my distribution.

There is a greater benefit of opening the strong hands with 1♣ when there is competition.

After eg 1♠ (3♥) P (4♥) you would have to show your second suit at the five level.

But after 1♣ (3♥) P (4♥) you can bid 4♠.

Eric
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