[mikeh]

This is close between 2♦ and 3♥ (anyone who thinks this is a minimum opening hand must get a lot of good hands). The ♥ 10 argues for 3♥ (point-counters note that the ♥10 is a VERY valuable card on this hand).

But while 3♥ rates to reach an adequate game, if there is one, 2♦ is the only bid that caters to a possible slam. Admittedly, it is also the only bid that can land you in 2♦ opposite a weak 3=1=3=6 hand

I try to avoid picturing perfect cards for partner, and certainly never assume that he holds them unless he tells me he does. But those who bid 3♥ will be disappointed should dummy present with xxx xx AKxxx Kxx.

Will I reach 6♦ opposite that and similar hands? I don't know, but I do know that the odds are a lot better having bid 2♦ than having bid 3♥.

At matchpoints, the case is clear: bid 3♥: play the major. At imps, I'm not going to be concerned about +600 in 5♦ as against +620 in 4♥.

I would rate the choices as 2♦ 100; 3♥95; 2♥ 10

[mike777]

Sure looks closer to a minimum for me. I suppose I could have a few worse spots but I could have more and rebid 2H.

[awm]

Borderline, but I go with 2♥ also. I think my style here is somewhat different from many people on these forums -- my 2♥ rebids tend to have something of the opposite inference and be quite sound. I prefer to open 2♥ with borderline 10-11 counts, so this rebid is something like 12-15. Admittedly this hand is fairly maximum, but if you make one of the small diamonds a small spade I would find 2♥ rebid to be virtually automatic (yes I know a lot of you bid 2m with that hand too).

[Al_U_Card]

Opposite a stiff ♥, despite the 5 loser hand, is it worth that much in 3♥ passed out? If pard prefers back to 2♥ then he has a doub and you are back in business with the 3♥ invite.

If pard bids 2NT over 2♥ are you going for the NT game or will you then bid 3♦.......oh wait, I bid 3♥, darn! At least over 2♦ when he bids 2NT you feel a lot better about trying NT.

[pclayton]

I think its real close between 2♦ and 3♥ too. 2♥ doesn't make my list; I'd rather bid 4♥.

There's sort of a conundrum here. If pard has a side diamond fit, we want to play 4♥ or SIX ♦'s. As a 3♥ supporter, its exactly the minimum's with a ♦ fit that make 4♥ excellent: xxx, x, AQxx, xxxxx where pard is passing 2♦.

However, if I bid 3♥, we can't evaluate through pard's interest if we bid 2♦.

I've just chosen 3♥ because its the best value bid. I'm giving up on the magical 6♦.

3♥ also has the advantage of making the defense to 4♥ tougher.

3♥ - 100
2♦ - 99
4♥ - 50
2♥ - 30

[Kalvan14]

2♦. 2♥ would be an underbid, and 3♥ is not this hand.

[Winstonm]

3H for me - the most practical bid to get to the most likely game.

[jdeegan]

I was taught by some of Louisiana's best players a few years ago that at IMPs 2♦ is the proper bid with a 6-4 hand that is much better than a min, but not good enough for 3♥. The idea is that you do get to game opposite pard's 9 to 11 count and doubleton heart after he raises diamonds or bids 2 NT.

My unenterprising 2♥ rebid cost me a vul game swing in the finals of a state championship team event.

[mike777]

jdeegan, on Jan 17 2006, 11:16 PM, said:

  I was taught by some of Louisiana's best players a few years ago that at IMPs 2♦ is the proper bid with a 6-4 hand that is much better than a min, but not good enough for 3♥.  The idea is that you do get to game opposite pard's 9 to 11 count and doubleton heart after he raises diamonds or bids 2 NT.

My unenterprising 2♥ rebid cost me a vul game swing in the finals of a state championship team event.

as usual if 2h says...14-15 hcp, 3QT and 6 card suit you are fine. 2D can say more. What does 1h say?

[han]

I just noticed this thread and voted for 2D. Not happy about it because those hearts are soooo much better. I've made even worse bids today, but I think that 2♥ is crazy.

[whereagles]

pclayton, on Jan 11 2006, 09:32 PM, said:

He would rather "die" than bid 2♦ on a hand like this.

Oh, I doubt that

As for what to bid, it's a matter of style and partnership agreement. 2♥, 3♥ and 2♦ are all reasonable and sensible bids.

[jdeegan]

mike777, on Jan 17 2006, 11:29 PM, said:

jdeegan, on Jan 17 2006, 11:16 PM, said:

  I was taught by some of Louisiana's best players a few years ago that at IMPs 2♦ is the proper bid with a 6-4 hand that is much better than a min, but not good enough for 3♥.  The idea is that you do get to game opposite pard's 9 to 11 count and doubleton heart after he raises diamonds or bids 2 NT.

My unenterprising 2♥ rebid cost me a vul game swing in the finals of a state championship team event.

as usual if 2h says...14-15 hcp, 3QT and 6 card suit you are fine. 2D can say more. What does 1h say?

A typical weak hand for the 2♥ bid would range from (10 HCP):

xx
KQ10xxx
AJ9
xx

up to (13 HCP):

Jx
AJ98xx
AQJx
x

a three heart bid ought to look like (16 HCP):

Kx
AKJ10xx
AJ8x
x

the 'in between' 2♦ call is designed to let me bid 4♥ over a 2NT call, 3♥ over a 2♥ preference or a 3♦ raise. Granted, I would like to have stronger diamonds.

If partner has a scattered 9-11 HCP, I want to be in game with the given hand (14 HCP) opposite:

Kxx
Qx
KJx
J10xxx

which is 10 HCP w/o much of a fit.

If pard gives me a 2♥ preference, I will raise to 3♥ and play there making three opposite

Jxx
xx
KJ10
Qxxxx

or be in 4♥ making opposite

Axx
xx
KJ10
Qxxxx

If you like Mike and Anders' I Fought the Law evaluation, you will correctly deduce that because of its splendid distribution, this hand will make 4♥ opposite 6 HCP IF they are all working (e.g. KJ of diamonds and the heart queen).

Given only a choice, I think I would sooner bid 3♥ than 2♥

[mike777]

Jx
AJ98xx
AQJx
x


Excellent question, pass or 1h or 2h opening bid in first or second seat if playing sound openings?

[mikeh]

mike777, on Jan 18 2006, 05:20 PM, said:

Jx
AJ98xx
AQJx
x


Excellent question, pass or 1h or 2h opening bid in first or second seat if playing sound openings?

Wow!

I would consider this to be a solid opener, indeed with modest extras, even if I agreed to play 'sound' opening bids

I would think that even Tobias Stone would have opened this 1♥

[Kalvan14]

mike777, on Jan 18 2006, 05:20 PM, said:

Jx
AJ98xx
AQJx
x


Excellent question, pass or 1h or 2h opening bid in first or second seat if playing sound openings?

Wow again.
I'd open 1♥, and rebid 2♦: the concentration is just too nice (btw, you can even keep the J♠)

[black man]

After 1 NT forcing, in my opinion, best bid could be 2 diamonds: I have only 14 points, but it seems a good distributional hand, and the possibility of a slam, with only 27/28 points on line is high.
On the 2nd p's bid, I can give the distribution:
- if p gives fi in d or h, i make cuebid in s,
- if p bid 2 NT i bid 3 h, giving a 6 4 distribution;
- if p bid 3 c, 3rd suite, I bid 3 s, ambiguous: 4th suite or cue bid .
sry for my poor english
black man

[mike777]

mike777, on Jan 18 2006, 05:20 PM, said:

Jx
AJ98xx
AQJx
x


Excellent question, pass or 1h or 2h opening bid in first or second seat if playing sound openings?

Ok, I note Al Roth opens 2H.

Hope this sidetrack into Roth sound openings generates new discussion, thought and debate on the widely accepted view of lighter openings, random weak 2 bids and the generally accepted thesis of opening first is a big advantage compared to the loss.

As a contrarian investment manager my interest rises when almost all the experts and my favorite partner are sold that one style is big loser and not worth considering. I think his exact comment was "can I just slit my throat now"? .

That may also explain why I was often on the losing end of my law school debates. .

Thanks for feedback and thoughtful comments from all.