[Kalvan14]

Scoring: MP

(P)-P-(1C*)- ?
Not really Precision, but showing 16/+ unabal or 17/+ bal

---

Just for once you've a serious overcall to make

[hrothgar]

Kalvan14, on Dec 28 2005, 03:11 AM, said:

Dealer: West Vul: None Scoring: MP

♠ 65 ♥   ♦ AJ97 ♣ AKQJT32

(P)-P-(1C*)- ? Not really Precision, but showing 16/+ unabal or 17/+ bal

Just for once you've a serious overcall to make 

Overcalls after a strong cloub opening are typically optimized to jam the opponents auction. Systemically, its normal to pass with strong hands, and I wouldn't fault that bid.

However, in this case we hold the minors and RHO almost definitely has Spades and Hearts. Equally significant, the solid Club suit means that it will be very difficults for the opponents to hit us.

I'm bidding 5♣. I expect to be forced to this level, so i might as well get there quickly... Switch the Club suit to Spades and I'd pass

[han]

I agree with Richard's analysis.

[000002]

I insist on 2-3rule for no more information

[bearmum]

Kalvan14, on Dec 28 2005, 01:11 PM, said:

Scoring: MP

(P)-P-(1C*)- ?
Not really Precision, but showing 16/+ unabal or 17/+ bal

---

Just for once you've a serious overcall to make

I voted for 5♣ -- make OPPS guess @ five level

[kgr]

5♣
I expect that either the opps can make 4M or we can make 5♣.

[whereagles]

I'd try 4♣ (3NT if I feel lucky). Opps will probably bid 4M over this, but there's a pretty good chance it won't make, since we have 2-3 defensive tricks and trumps may not break.

A direct 5♣ bid may work well if opps can make 4M, but that's far from a certainty and given we have too much hcp, opps probably won't bid 5M. They'll double you instead.

[Winstonm]

While there is much to be said for a direct 5C, I'm not sure it is right on this hand.
RHO has advertised 16-17 and I hold 15. Odds would say that LHO will be compelled to make a negative bid of some sort, presumably 1D. Seems to me that I will be better placed to know what to do after LHO's and RHO's next calls.

While it is true that 1C-P-1H-P-1S-5C gives them some information, it is not all that much more than LHO if a standard pair would have after 1S-5C.

To me, the risk of a premature phantom save is too great here so I'd rather wait and hear more of what I'm competing against before committing.

Winston

[mikeh]

I hope that I got my call out in tempo. If so, then I vote for pass (ask me tomorrow, and I'd probably bid 5♣: it is very close).

My rationale: 5♣ is very committal, yet it is the only sane number of ♣ to bid. Any fewer gives the opps information and leaves you (almost certainly) wondering what to do next. Thus after 4♣ P P 4♥, you'd feel very uncomfortable.

There is at least a possibility that it is partner who has the unbalanced major suit hand and that nobody can make anything. I will find out a little more with my initial pass. However, so will the opps and I may discover that an immediate 5♣ was better.

This is so close that I decided to pass based on the extremely slim possibility that passing might lead to my being on lead against some number of notrump I only hope is that it is not 1NT

[pclayton]

I will pass as well.

In a strong club auction, delayed entry shows strength. There's a fair chance we have 3N if pard has some bits and pieces in the majors. I'm not saying we'll get there, but any club overcall or blast totally eliminates our chances of reaching it with pard's help.

4♣ followed by 4N (to get diamonds in) is a second choice, but I'd rather go the slow route.

[whereagles]

mikeh, on Dec 28 2005, 05:43 PM, said:

Thus after 4♣ P P 4♥, you'd feel very uncomfortable.

Well, maybe you'd feel uncomfortable, but pard will be quite happy if he holds

♠ Jxxx
♥ QJxx
♦ Txxx
♣ x

and that's not nearly the best hand he can hold.

[mikeh]

whereagles, on Dec 28 2005, 01:38 PM, said:

mikeh, on Dec 28 2005, 05:43 PM, said:

Thus after 4♣ P P 4♥, you'd feel very uncomfortable.

Well, maybe you'd feel uncomfortable, but pard will be quite happy if he holds

♠ Jxxx
♥ QJxx
♦ Txxx
♣ x

and that's not nearly the best hand he can hold.

I think you have missed the point

If you decide to preempt (and note that I passed but think that it is close), then you MUST bid as high as you can afford to bid. It is essential that you do not put you or your partner in the position that, after an entirely forseeable opposition action, neither of you knows what to do.

Clearly, if you bid 4♣, partner may be delighted to defend a major game: but YOU don't know that and so you will be feeling that you have not done all that you could have done.

Equally, give partner something like xxx xxx xxxxx xx, and he would not dream of bidding 5♣, yet that is the correct spot.

Make it xxx xxx Kxxxxx x and, again, he would not dream of disturbing 4 of a major, yet the hand belongs to you in 5♣: on a ♥ lead you make 7 more often than not!

[Kalvan14]

Agree with most of the posters. The real alternatives are pass, and 5C. Any intermediat number of clubs would not be helpful, just warn oppos about bad splits without preempting much (and I would never ever introduce the diamonds suit in teh auction: the disparity between the minors is too big).

At the table I choose 5C, and the auction went on:

(P)-P-(1♣)-5♣-(P)-P-(X)-P-5♠-P-(P)-?

Do you take any further action?

[bearmum]

Kalvan14, on Dec 29 2005, 11:58 AM, said:

Agree with most of the posters. The real alternatives are pass, and 5C. Any intermediat number of clubs would not be helpful, just warn oppos about bad splits without preempting much (and I would never ever introduce the diamonds suit in teh auction: the disparity between the minors is too big).

At the table I choose 5C, and the auction went on:

(P)-P-(1♣)-5♣-(P)-P-(X)-P-5♠-P-(P)-?

Do you take any further action?

I personally wouldn't as I have forced them to the 5 level -- and I prefer NOT to bid a prempt hand a second time

[whereagles]

mikeh, on Dec 28 2005, 06:56 PM, said:

If you decide to preempt, then you MUST bid as high as you can afford to bid.

Says who? Preempting is exercising judgement, not bidding as high as you can.

[pbleighton]

"Says who? Preempting is exercising judgement, not bidding as high as you can."

Preempting is exercising judgement in how high you can bid.

Peter

[Kalvan14]

bearmum, on Dec 28 2005, 06:07 PM, said:

Kalvan14, on Dec 29 2005, 11:58 AM, said:

Agree with most of the posters. The real alternatives are pass, and 5C. Any intermediat number of clubs would not be helpful, just warn oppos about bad splits without preempting much (and I would never ever introduce the diamonds suit in teh auction: the disparity between the minors is too big).

At the table I choose 5C, and the auction went on:

(P)-P-(1♣)-5♣-(P)-P-(X)-P-5♠-P-(P)-?

Do you take any further action?

I personally wouldn't as I have forced them to the 5 level -- and I prefer NOT to bid a prempt hand a second time

I'm not going to bid 6♣, . OTOH, I doubled (and this should certainly be a Lightner double)

[pclayton]

Kalvan14, on Dec 28 2005, 02:58 PM, said:

Agree with most of the posters. The real alternatives are pass, and 5C. Any intermediat number of clubs would not be helpful, just warn oppos about bad splits without preempting much (and I would never ever introduce the diamonds suit in teh auction: the disparity between the minors is too big).

At the table I choose 5C, and the auction went on:

(P)-P-(1♣)-5♣-(P)-P-(X)-P-5♠-P-(P)-?

Do you take any further action?

No (repeat 3x)!

One of the 1st rules of preemption is to live with the result. Who knows who was making what? Maybe you've jammed them to an uncomfortable spot, maybe its the par spot, maybe they are cold for 6 or maybe its a cheap sac against your 5♣. Who knows? You've created the uncertainty with 5♣.

With the Q♦ I might double I suppose, but I really can't see setting this in my own hand.

I suppose this is a good reason to bid the hand slower, if you are even tempted to make another call at the 6 level.

I'm curious to know what happens if I pass initially. I'm guessing I hear a 1♦ response on my left and 1♥ on my right.....

[Joe de Balliol]

At matchpoints I'd be much more tempted by 4C. Against most dummies I'll be making ten tricks and 4M will be drifting off slowly. At IMPs it's 5C for me by a long way. I'm doubling 5S iff I'm sure pard will take as Lightner. Otherwise I'm passing as smoothly as possible.

J

[hrothgar]

Kalvan14, on Dec 29 2005, 01:58 AM, said:

Agree with most of the posters. The real alternatives are pass, and 5C. Any intermediat number of clubs would not be helpful, just warn oppos about bad splits without preempting much (and I would never ever introduce the diamonds suit in teh auction: the disparity between the minors is too big).

At the table I choose 5C, and the auction went on:

(P)-P-(1♣)-5♣-(P)-P-(X)-P-5♠-P-(P)-?

Do you take any further action?

I think that double is reasonable...
A Heart lead looks to be our best chance of setting a Spade contract