[Winstonm]

Scoring: IMP

Auction:

E S W N
1N-P-2♦-P
2♥-P-4♥-X
P-?

---

Playing in a KO event with a nationally known expert, you hold the posted hand and hear this auction. What action or inaction do you take and what hand do you expect partner to hold?

[mike777]

Winstonm, on Dec 26 2005, 05:59 PM, said:

Scoring: IMP

Auction:

E  S  W  N
1N-P-2♦-P
2♥-P-4♥-X
?

---

Playing in a KO event with a nationally known expert, you hold the posted hand and hear this auction.  What action or inaction do you take and what hand do you expect partner to hold?

partner has made a slam try in hearts.
I opened 1nt with 5hcp...I think that is not enough to accept so I pass.
On the other hand if 5 hcp is a max 1nt in your style....you might bid more.

[Gerben42]

I think a pass is missing and this is doubler's partner. If so, I pass. Partner does not want to hear 4♠ (failure to bid 2♥ over 2♦)

[awm]

I suspect that we are, as usual, south. Partner has made a double at the four level.

If partner's over 60, I'm going to bet that pass is right. Back "in the day" these doubles were penalty.

If my partner's under 30, I'm going to guess this is suggesting a sacrifice. Something like:

QJxx
-
AJxxx
xxxx

I'd bid 4♠.

If partner's somewhere in between, it's going to be a tough guess.

[Winstonm]

Sorry all. Try again. I left a pass out. You are the partner of the doubler.

What do you do? What is partner's hand?

Winston

[luke warm]

mike777, on Dec 26 2005, 06:14 PM, said:

partner has made a slam try in hearts.
I opened 1nt with 5hcp...I think that is not enough to accept so I pass.
On the other hand if 5 hcp is a max 1nt in your style....you might bid more.

rofl

i'd pass because i'm confused.. if you're thinking that means i must pass a lot, you're right

[Kalvan14]

I'd interpret N's double as showing 4 spades, and a longer minor, and proposing a sacrifice. I plainly cannot believe the double is for penalty: there are no indications that hearts are breaking badly (and in any case pard is before the hnd with long hearts), and there are not enought points for N to make a penalty double out of brute strength (I'd say he might have 10 HCP top).

The question is why he choose not to overcall earlier: maybe he has a 4-7 and was walking the dog? In such a case, I'd like to see if he holds 4♠ doubled.

[000002]

Cue-bid 2♥ shows M+m(55),5044/4144 isn't sufficient to take a takeout double in 4level and 16HCPS outside you.
it's no any doubt this is penalty(2A+♥KQT)

[mikeh]

I would like to know the methods in use by the opps, but if you are playing with a true expert, the odds are that your opps have some idea what they are doing (because the ko's are presumably bracketed), and for most in NA, this sequence by EW shows a mild slam try. Obviously this double is not penalty of a mild slam try. The idea that partner has 2 Aces and the KQ10 of ♥ means that RHo made his slam try on at most 7 hcp and 6 ♥: not probable

However, if they do not play texas transfers, they might be bidding this way.

So if they do not play texas, I pass. If they do, I bid 4♠, expecting a 4=1=4=4 or possibly 4=0=(45)


BTW, I assume 1N showed 15-17. It helps to have the full information one would insist on having at the table, else our guesses are random.

[000002]

I notice the doubler is known player,that means we should assume he is right.if opps (e-w) play TEXAS transfer,the t/o is very dangerous for e-w determinate redouble and n-s might be unfit any suit.
The another reason for this double is laterna(how to spell?) showing a side void suit,this time is maybe ♠ , opener has 5cards and partner has ♥Aces&King&x.Unfortunately,in this case, 4♥ would be made up even though a ♠ leading.(it's possible partner's♣ void,but too hard to depict his hand)

I think the fair and reasonable is e-w( forget )their TEXAS and the known player ignore it too.OR, he is an advanced player only

[Kalvan14]

A Lightner double at the level of 4♥? Curioser and curioser

[hrothgar]

Interesting hand...

It would be interesting to know whether the opponents are playing Texas.
Many pairs use a Texas transfer to show hands worth playing in game and a Jacoby transfer followed by a game bid as some species of slam invite... This information could be important when deciding what to do.

Case in point: Three very standard types of doubles (Penalty, Lightner, and card showing) could all be excluded if this sequences promises slam invitation values. Quite honestly, even given the favorable vulnerability, I'm dubious about a takeout double if the opponents are in the middle of slam invitational sequence. I suspect that double is giving them a fielders choice. They'll hit us when appropriate and compete when its right.

Accordingly, I'm going to assume that this is NOT a slam invitational sequence. From my prospective, the double can't be takeout. And hand that is potentially forcing partner to bid at the 4/5 level should have said something long ago....

Partner could have "cards" and values, however, I'm worried about my my xx in Hearts. Its dangerous to double these auctions without a trump stack.

I suspect that Lightner is the most reasonable treatment, however, this would suggest that the opponents have an 8 card Spade fit. Either RHO opened 1N with a 5 card Spade suit or LHO is sitting on a 4-6-xx... The later bodes ill for out chance of setting the contract.

I'm passing and leading a Spade, however, this is wihout strong convinction.

[Winstonm]

mikeh, on Dec 27 2005, 12:55 AM, said:

I would like to know the methods in use by the opps, but if you are playing with a true expert, the odds are that your opps have some idea what they are doing (because the ko's are presumably bracketed), and for most in NA, this sequence by EW shows a mild slam try. Obviously this double is not penalty of a mild slam try. The idea that partner has 2 Aces and the KQ10 of ♥ means that RHo made his slam try on at most 7 hcp and 6 ♥: not probable

However, if they do not play texas transfers, they might be bidding this way.

So if they do not play texas, I pass. If they do, I bid 4♠, expecting a 4=1=4=4 or possibly 4=0=(45)


BTW, I assume 1N showed 15-17. It helps to have the full information one would insist on having at the table, else our guesses are random.

Good point. Thought that without futher clarification that standard range would be assumed. Here the NT is 15-17.

This problem was sent to me by a fine player - his description was that you are playing against a pair of "marginal" ability. I can't say if Texas was on the card as I don't know. Bill, the player who sent this to me, regularly plays with the likes of George Pisk and Mildred Breed so you can assume an expert level of partner in the doubler's seat - what we don't know is if the opening pair believes this sequence is a slam try.

I would think that against players of "marginal" ability one would believe partner over opponents - maybe all the time as well.

Winston

[000002]

i will be willing to hear what the World classic partner held ,as same as to thank who tell me how to spell "lightner'double

[arrows]

Just pass, what's the problem?

If I made that double, I wouldn't expect my partner to pull it out.

[Winstonm]

---

North's comment was that he had planned on passing and then doubling when 2H was passed back to him.

Perhaps N/S were playing that a an immediate 2H bid would have been a 2-suiter, but this is unknown. At the table, South passed and lost a double game swing.

Winston

[000002]

oh I see,the known player took mistake this time---assume he is a world classic player.

[000002]

i explain as follows:

when i hold JTxxx xxx x JTxx,hear opps opener super-transfer 3♥ and RHO sign-off to my balanced position, i would follow a double and think passing is passive ,timid even.
when i hold xxxxx xx xx AKxx,facing opener bid 2♥ and RHO stop, i will compete a double ,did u suggest 2♠?i think nope.
This means a balanced double guarantee ♠+minor,2suit only,notice--NOT 3 suit.

when the auction going on the follows process:
(1NT)=P=(2♦)=X
(2♥)=P=(P)=X/2♠
which difference between X/2♠? i think double hint ♣ upholding and ♠--maybe 3154 maybe 4153,but 2♠ deny a good ♣ supporting.

Hence, I suggest the bidding :
1NT---P---2♦---X
2♥--2♠---4♥---4♠
Did you mind the known player double 2♦ instead of his pass at the first time?is 17HCPs can expiate the fifth cards ♦?

i prefer taking a risk on 2-level, i don't like to venture on 4-level.

[000002]

i explain as follows:

when i hold JTxxx xxx x JTxx,hear opps opener super-transfer 3♥ and RHO sign-off to my balanced position, i would follow a double and think passing is passive ,timid even.
when i hold xxxxx xx xx AKxx,facing opener bid 2♥ and RHO stop, i will compete a double ,did u suggest 2♠?i think nope.
This means a balanced double guarantee ♠+minor,2suit only,notice--NOT 3 suit.

when the auction going on the follows process:
(1NT)=P=(2♦)=X
(2♥)=P=(P)=X/2♠
which difference between X/2♠? i think double hint ♣ upholding and ♠--maybe 3154 maybe 4153,but 2♠ deny a good ♣ supporting.

Hence, I suggest the bidding :
1NT---P---2♦---X
2♥--2♠---4♥---4♠
Did you mind the known player double 2♦ instead of his pass at the first time?is 17HCPs can expiate the fifth cards ♦?

i prefer taking a risk on 2-level, i don't like to venture on 4-level.

[000002]

i explain as follows:

when i hold JTxxx xxx x JTxx,hear opps opener super-transfer 3♥ and RHO sign-off to my balanced position, i would follow a double and think passing is passive ,timid even.
when i hold xxxxx xx xx AKxx,facing opener bid 2♥ and RHO stop, i will compete a double ,did u suggest 2♠?i think nope.
This means a balanced double guarantee ♠+minor,2suit only,notice--NOT 3 suit.futher, it means we can find a 4-4fit 50%only when partner has 5-4 or 6-5 minors.

when the auction is going on the follows process:
(1NT)=P=(2♦)=X
(2♥)=P=(P)=X/2♠
which difference between X/2♠? i think double hint ♣ upholding and ♠--maybe 3154 maybe 4153,but 2♠ deny a good ♣ supporting.

Hence, I advice the bidding :
1NT---P---2♦---X
2♥--2♠---4♥---4♠
Did you mind the known player double 2♦ instead of his pass at the first time?is 17HCPs can expiate the fifth cards ♦?

i prefer taking a risk on 2-level, i don't like to venture on 4-level.