[Kalvan14]

Scoring: IMP

1S-(2C)-?

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Is there a SAYC standard for this type of hands?
How high would you answer in any case?

[bearmum]

Kalvan14, on Dec 23 2005, 12:55 PM, said:

Scoring: IMP

1S-(2C)-?

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Is there a SAYC standard for this type of hands?
How high would you answer in any case?

I don't know if there's a "standard" but I would bid 4♠

[Gerben42]

I'd go for a 2NT mixed raise, defenitely NOT sayc. Playing this sayc thingy, probably the bid is 3♣ invite or better?

[LH2650]

From the ACBL SAYC Booklet, "Bids mean the same things they meant without the intervening bid." Three spades would be a limit raise. A cuebid, as in 1S - (2C) - 3C is a game force. I don't know if anyone actually plays this way, but that is the system!

[hrothgar]

You have a 7 loser hand with a 4 card fit for partner.
This is substantially stronger than a limit raise.

Equally significant, you have a stiff in the suit where RHO overcalled (and presumably has values). Your HCP are "working".

I believe that most players would start with a 3♣ cue bid. Even if SAYC included splinters, this hand isn't quite strong enough...

[Kalvan14]

That was also my understanding. Which means that playing a straight SAYC you toss a coin: 3♠ or 4♠?

Note: the comment was referred to LH2650 post

[civill]

4♠ !

[Al_U_Card]

Sayc is such a grab bag, and a splinter would need fewer soft values to be useful. The q-bid stands out with this 7 loser hand as pard can stop in 3S with a stinker. Since q-bids are generally forcing to game in sayc and you are unpassed, raise to 3S to show the "limit" raise.

[mike777]

Al_U_Card, on Dec 23 2005, 09:07 AM, said:

Sayc is such a grab bag, and a splinter would need fewer soft values to be useful. The q-bid stands out with this 7 loser hand as pard can stop in 3S with a stinker. Since q-bids are generally forcing to game in sayc and you are unpassed, raise to 3S to show the "limit" raise.

4S

7.5 loser for me. I expect partner to not open stinkers.

[Al_U_Card]

mike777, on Dec 23 2005, 11:29 AM, said:

7.5 loser for me. I expect partner to not open stinkers.

I need names.......

[Fluffy]

2♠ for me

[Kalvan14]

I choose to rebid 4♠, but then you know already I am not shy.
4♠ made easily, but pard had the "right" minimum: Axxxx Axx xx Axx: I would assume he'd pass a limit 3♠ without other indications.
Still, having to toss a coin is not the best of possible worlds: IMO, the important features of this hand are the stiff club and the very good support in spades.
A cue-bid should not be game forcing: it can be limit or better, and used in conjunction with a 2N showing support, and GF values in a balanced hand (I'd be the first to be surprised if a natural 2N is necessary here).

The situation where pard opens in a major, and RHO overcalls is quite common, and it should be one of the first things a partnership agrees upon (I was playing with a pick-up partner, obviously). OTOH, SAYC should include better tools (which do not need to be very sofisticated to be effective)