[dosxtres]

Is there a reverse in the responder bidding up the line?

I have some troubles about responder bidding, not sure if it is wrong or maybe sayc is different than SEF, that i've been learning altogether.

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What to bid in this cases?
Would it be diferent treatment in sayc, 2/1 and SEF
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Case 1.

partner opens 1C
1A xxx KQxx Axxx xx 4-4 9H,
1B xxx KQxx AQxx xx 4-4 11H
1C Kxx KQxx AJxx xx 4-4 13H

Case 2
partner opens 1C
2A xx KQxx Axxxx xx 4-5 9H
2B xx KQxx AQxxx xx 4-5 11H
2C Ax KQxx Axxxx xx 4-5 13 H

Q1- What to bid in this cases SEF, sayc and 2/1
Q2- Is there diferences in honor ranges, less than 10, 11-12 and 13 or more?
only less than 13 or more than 13?
Q3- Is there or not the meaning of 'reverse' by responder bidding up the line?
1C 1D 1H 2H, is this a reverse by responder? If so how many points does he
promises?
Q4 When reversing by responder, first suit has to be stricly longer than second
one?

i.e. 1C 1D
1S 2H
- Diamond has to be longer than heart or can be 4-4?

i.e. 1C 1D
1H 2H
- Is this a reverse?
- Diamond is longer than heart or can be 4-4?



Thank you.
Best regards.

[Gerben42]

SEF: With hands below invitational strength, bid a major with 4M + 4♦.

This means that you should respond:
1♥ with 1A
1♦ with 1B and 1C

but always 1♦ with 2ABC

1♣ 1♦ 1♠ 2♥ = 4th suit forcing, NOT natural.

1♣ 1♦ 1♥ 2♥ = not invitational (about 6 - 10 points), so promises 5+♦

This is also what I play for systems where 2/1 is game forcing, but there are other styles.

[Gerben42]

Forgot about the question about responder's reverse. The first suit must be longer than the second, and it must be a suit partner denied. It is only possible as a THIRD suit, not a fourth, so partner must have either bid 1NT or repeated his suit.

Examples of a reverse by responder:

1♣ 1♥ 2♣ 2♠
1♣ 1♦ 1NT 2♥

These bids are GF and show 5+cards in the first suit and 4 cards in the second suit.

[barmar]

dosxtres, on Dec 16 2005, 07:23 AM, said:

Q3- Is there or not the meaning of 'reverse' by responder bidding up the line?
1C 1D 1H 2H, is this a reverse by responder? If so how many points does he
promises?

This depends on whether you play Walsh-style responses to 1♣. If you bid strictly up-the-line, then this shows about 7-10 HCP; to invite, responder must jump to 3♥. But if you bypass ♦ when you have a minimum hand, this shows invitational strength.

This is one of the benefits of Walsh responses -- there's room for opener to make a game try, rather than having to guess whether to accept the invitation.

[Fluffy]

If you are playing walsh (wich is part of SEF I think) then the bidding

1♣-1♦
1♥-2♥

Is game Forcing.


1♣-1♦
1NT-2♥

Is also Game Forcing.

In general when showing 2 suits, if the second bid is higher than rebidding the first suit (1♦ then 2♥ is higher than the 2♦ suit rebid, but 1♠ then 2♥ isn't higher that the 2♠ rebid) it shows extra strenght. This rule applies for both opener and responder.

[dosxtres]

Ty all.

[barmar]

Fluffy, on Dec 17 2005, 04:01 AM, said:

If you are playing walsh (wich is part of SEF I think) then the bidding

1♣-1♦
1♥-2♥

Is game Forcing.

If that's game forcing, how do you bid an invitational hand with 5+♦ and 4♥? In Walsh, you're only supposed to bypass ♦ with a less-than-invitational hand, so that auction is invitational, not GF.

With a game forcing hand, responder can either jump straight to game or bid 4th suit forcing to get more information if he's interested in exploring for slam.

[mike777]

barmar, on Dec 19 2005, 03:07 PM, said:

Fluffy, on Dec 17 2005, 04:01 AM, said:

If you are playing walsh (wich is part of SEF I think) then the bidding

1♣-1♦
1♥-2♥

Is game Forcing.

If that's game forcing, how do you bid an invitational hand with 5+♦ and 4♥? In Walsh, you're only supposed to bypass ♦ with a less-than-invitational hand, so that auction is invitational, not GF.

With a game forcing hand, responder can either jump straight to game or bid 4th suit forcing to get more information if he's interested in exploring for slam.

We have had this discussion before. Many if not most play Walsh as game forcing not invite. Yes, that means with 5+d and 4 hearts and invite you bid 1h first.

No perfect solution to the longer minor with 4h invite hand but playing 2 way checkback can help. If you play this style, game force, then you choose to live with this issue. .