[Free]

Scoring: MP

---

North starts the bidding, East intervenes with 4NT (usually showing 55+m):
1♠ - 4NT - ???

How do you find 7♥?

The bidding at our table went:

Spoiler

1♠ - 4NT - pass - 5♣
pass - pass - 5♠ - all pass
Lucky we were the defenders.

[mike777]

Free, on Dec 13 2005, 05:45 AM, said:

Scoring: MP

---

North starts the bidding, East intervenes with 4NT (usually showing 55+m):
1♠ - 4NT - ???

How do you find 7♥?

The bidding at our table went:

Spoiler

1♠ - 4NT - pass - 5♣
pass - pass - 5♠ - all pass
Lucky we were the defenders.

I start with x...Congrats to those who get to 7H.

[joker_gib]

Will never pass 4NT !

Dbl is also my bid.

Alain

[P_Marlowe]

I wont find 7H, it will be hard
to find 6H.

I usually dont assume as responder
that opener is 6-5-2-0
Switch openers minor and you are happy
playing on the 5 level.

I will start with a double, over 5C
opener will bid 5H, which I will pass.

Marlowe

[Gerben42]

I am happy enough if I find 6!

1♠ (4NT) Dbl (5♣)
Pass* (Pass) 5♦ (Pass)
6♥ swish

* Forcing

[P_Marlowe]

Gerben42, on Dec 13 2005, 07:43 AM, said:

I am happy enough if I find 6!

1♠ (4NT) Dbl (5♣)
Pass* (Pass) 5♦ (Pass)
6♥ swish

* Forcing

5D does show the Ace?

Marlowe

[Chamaco]

What's the difference (over 4NT) between:

a. immediate cue of a minor (opp suit)
b. immediate double
c. immediate support in spades
d. immediate bid of hearts
e. pass first round then cuebid of a minor (opps suit)
f. pass first round then double
g. pass 1st round then support spades
h. pass 1st round then bid hearts

[000002]

yes it's possibility to reach 7♥

[inquiry]

Chamaco, on Dec 13 2005, 08:14 AM, said:

What's the difference (over 4NT) between:

I am not sure for everyone.. .but for me... a variation of unusual versus unusual. (note pass here is NOT forcing over 4NT or over 5 of their minor)...

Quote

a. immediate cue of a minor (opp suit)

Cue-bid clubs shows a one-suited hand with hearts, some slam interest
Cue-bid of diamonds shows a spade fit and some slam interest

Quote

b. immediate double

Willingness to penalty double one or the other of their proposed contracts, maybe both.

Quote

c. immediate support in spades

Less than cue-bid 5♦, but with ♠ support

Quote

d. immediate bid of hearts

FIT NON-JUMP showing hearts with spade support as well. With just hearts, cue-bid 5♣ or pass then bid 5♥ later.

Quote

e. pass 1st round then support spades

You had given your partner a chance to wack 5♣/5♦, presumably he didn't. So now you bid 5♠ as two way shot. Maybe you can make, maybe they can make 5m. You are not inviting his continuation.

Quote

f. pass 1st round then bid hearts

This is non-slam try with just hearts. (weaker than the immediate 5♣ cue bid.

Quote

g. pass first round then cuebid clubs or diamonds

I find it difficult to believe you could pass the first time and then bid cue-bid clubs (except a 6♣ cue-bid). This is a slam try with control in the cue-bid suit.

Quote

h. pass first round then double

This is for takeout, showing good hearts, and modest spade support (not good enough for FIT NON-JUMP with regard to heart legnth. It is passable (Hx of spades or three spades expected). If you could want to double one of their suits ,you would have doubled 4NT.

On this hand, how should the bidding go?

1♠-4NT-DBL-5♣
5♥-Pass-6♦-Pass
7♥-all pass

Where DBL = showed willigness to penalize one or the other minor
5♥ showed a distribution two suiter, too strong (distributionally) to sit for double of 5♣ (implies of course, also, club shortness
6♦ - grand slam try, obviously needing a club control
7♥ = I have a club control.

[Robert]

Hi everyone

You passed with a 13HCP hand and pulled to 5S on Ax when they bid 5Cs?

I use the unusual unusual defense and 5D would have shown longer/better spades

while 5C would show egual/longer hearts in many auctions. This is not one of

them.

Did the other pair really bid 4NT showing 5-5+ minors. The bid to show 5-5+

minors is normally 1S-2NT.

Bidding 7H is a wild gamble. Even six hearts might lose the first two club tricks.

Partner cannot count on you for a fit and you cannot count on your partner for a club void plus 11 major cards 'with KQ or spades and AJ of hearts.'

Try trading opener's spade King for the diamond king. Or just give him KQxxx of spades and you are playing for a 3-3 break after hearing a 4NT overcall.

Regards,
Robert

[Free]

Hey robert, some comments:
- I didn't bid 1♠, 4NT or 5♠. The only thing I did was bidding 5♣
- There is no other pair since it's MP, there are lots of other pairs
- I guess most people just bid 2NT (he had a 1-1-5-6), which is a poor bid imo since it's too easy to defend against and you're preparing for a 5m sacrifice anyway.
- Several pairs found 7♥ or at least slam, there was one pair who was allowed to play 5♣*-2

[P_Marlowe]

Free, on Dec 13 2005, 10:59 AM, said:

- Several pairs found 7♥ or at least slam, there was one pair who was allowed to play 5♣*-2 

After a 4NT preempt?
Was the bidding of those pairs scientific,
i.e. did they reach slam in a controlled way
or did they just shoot?

Marlowe

[han]

I was thinking about the same auction as Gerben:

1S-(4NT)-Dbl-5C
p-(p)-5D-p
6H-all pass.


The double shows exactly one of their suits (with both pass and double -> penalty), so opener may very well bid 5H over 5C. 5D gives choice of strains, and 6H seems right. Tough hand.

[inquiry]

Hannie, on Dec 13 2005, 12:30 PM, said:

I was thinking about the same auction as Gerben:

1S-(4NT)-Dbl-5C
p-(p)-5D-p
6H-all pass.


The double shows exactly one of their suits (with both pass and double -> penalty), so opener may very well bid 5H over 5C. 5D gives choice of strains, and 6H seems right. Tough hand.

Is this "double shows exactly one of their suits" standard? I learned ususual versus unusual a long time ago (invisible cue-bids, etc), but my understanding of UvU as it relates to 1x-(2NT) and by extension to 1x-(4NT) is that an double shows length in one or both of the opponent's suits. And here partner should usually pass to give you the option of doubling for penalty (should your LHO pass).

You seem to be saying, that the initial double shows exactly one of their suits. I think this is wrong, and if you play fit non-jumps, is clearly wrong. By passing (inability to double at least one of their suits for penalty), you can reopen iwth double to suggest the unbid suit, with modest support for openers first bid suit. The pass then double, also allows your partner to understand you are not stacked against them in either suit (you would have doubled first), but you must have some cards in their suit or you would have choose a different path.

The double could be either suit (and not just one) also has important implications on opener hands like this one. If an intial double only suggest a penalty double of one of their suits, opener would know that they opponents will find a nice landing place. He might want to bid on with a lot of different kinds of hands short in both minors. But if double could be agaisnt both suits, opener would not want to bid again without an EXCELLENT excuse (over the double). 6-5, come alive is such an excuse with concentrated stregnth in both majors.