[Echognome]

Scoring: IMP

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After West opens 1♥, North will usually double. East raises to 2♥ and now South must figure out what to do. South would like to set spades as trumps and then make some slam tries.

One option is for a slam try is to just bash out 6♠ and try to make it. That would be my choice and was the choice of Harrison-Gray at the time. I don't think you're going to find partner very cooperative in this auction and why tell the opponents any more than they need to know.

Those that go the scientific route have to start the slow and arduous journey with a cuebid. South must force and the cuebid is the only forcing bid available. This makes sense as after a bid and a double, it is hardly common for advancer to need to make slam tries. So south cuebids 3♥ and North who is minimum for the takeout double will bid 3♠. What can south do now? Are spades agreed? What did the first cue-bid ask? All important questions for your partnership.

Some souths will cuebid again to force and then over 4♠ from partner a new suit must be agreeing spades. It's a long route to try to get information out of partner and I think in the end, many will wish they had just bashed.

[inquiry]

We had an odd disaster on this hand due to an obscure auction we had never discussed.. our auction was....

1♥-(dbl)-(2♥)-3♥
(pass)-3♠-(pass)-5♣!
(pass)-6♣-(pass)-7♠
All pass


At this point (over partners 5♣) I took about four minutes to bid. I thought I was going to set the contract in 5♣ or possibly in 6♣. Finally I choose to bid 6♣, but not before babbling a little at the table (I figured my bid whatever it would be would set the contract). Hannie meant his 5♣ as "exclusion blackwood" but I never thought we agreed upon trumps. So he felt duty bound to respond to my 6♣ as if it was a response to 5♣ exclusion blackwood (without a fit, our response here would just ahve been aces (0, 1, 2, or 3, so 6♣ is not a possible answer, or with a fit 0-3, 1-4. 2 without or 2 with, so again 6♣ would not have been a possible answer, and with him looking at two key cards, there would only be 2 avalaible outside of clubs anyway).

After the hand we both agreed that 4♣ after the cue-bid would be forcing but I thought 5♣ was a stronger slam try with clubs. I would have taken 4♣ as a cue-bid agreeing spades or GF with club and or clubs and diamonds without a spade fit.

What are your rules for Exclusion Blackwood? I only use it after certain trump agreement, which didn't exist here.

[Echognome]

Not to get too off track, but I thought it interesting to bring up a couple of points here.

First, should we treat the following auctions differently:

1. (1X) - Dbl - (P) - ?

2. (1X) - Dbl - (2X) - ?

I would argue we should. I think in the latter case, it might make sense to play lebensohl. That is to say, can we not treat auction 2 the same as:

3. (2X) - Dbl - (P) - ?

Then all of your normal agreements apply and more importantly, 3♠ would now have been forcing. You would lose out a natural 2NT, but is it that likely in this auction? Furthermore, you can now define 4m as leaping Michael's. I think this would have cleared up a lot of confusion on this auction, but I know this hand is rather exceptional.

[awm]

Elianna started with the 3♥ cuebid, then cuebid 4♥ over my 3♠ (which clearly agrees the suit in our methods), and we eventually reached 6♠.

In general I prefer not to play lebensohl over 1X-double-2X, because most of the bad hands can just pass. This is not the same as 2X-double-pass, where fourth hand is pretty much forced to bid (unless holding a penalty pass of course). I've also observed that people tend to make competitive raises (especially of minors) on very little, so the natural 2NT is fairly useful.

On the other hand, I would play lebensohl over 1X-pass-2X-double-pass. Basically the idea is that lebensohl over doubles is on only when: (1) auction is at the two level (2) passing is not an option unless you want to defend a doubled contract.

[hrothgar]

Another hand where Free and I had a bidding misunderstanding
(Not out greatest set, even before my decalrer play gets taken into account)

Out auction started

(1♥) - X - (2♥) - 3♠

I asusmed that 3♠ was non-forcing and passed

[inquiry]

hrothgar, on Dec 12 2005, 01:13 PM, said:

Another hand where Free and I had a bidding misunderstanding
(Not out greatest set, even before my decalrer play gets taken into account)

Out auction started

(1♥) - X - (2♥ - 3♠

I asusmed that 3♠ was non-foricng and passed

I don't think 3♠ is forcing, even given the bidding. If you have spades and want to force, it seems to be jump to 4♠ or cue-bid then bid spades, or with strong hand, cue-bid and if you get a chance, cue-bid again.

3♠, however, is encouraging, but looking at free's hand, I would have passed it too, yes even at imps... you saw you were red at imps when you bid it too, both partners can't stretch. I did think enough of my hand to "raise" clubs to slam... :-)

BTW richard, your 3♠ was much better than my 7♠ or justin's 5♣'s.I guess it just goes to show Matt''s idea of leaping to 6♠ has a lot of merit.

[han]

We had an interesting auction (see Ben's response). I think about exclusion blackwood as I do about splinters. If a jump is a splinter, then one level higher is exclusion blackwood. If the jump is above our game level then it is automatically exclusion blackwood. My rule for splinters is that if a non-jump is forcing then a jump is a splinter, one doesn't need to set trump for this. I didn't think that 5C here could ever be natural, but bridge is difiicult without agreements.

When Ben announced that 5C had to be natural and that he was setting the contract with 6C, I felt I had to ignore the UI (strange to have UI in a bidding contest). 6C clearly shows 2 keycards and a heart void, so 7S was laydown. Unfortuantely they doubled 7S .

[inquiry]

Hannie, on Dec 12 2005, 02:52 PM, said:

If the jump is above our game level then it is automatically exclusion blackwood. My rule for splinters is that if a non-jump is forcing then a jump is a splinter, one doesn't need to set trump for this. I didn't think that 5C here could ever be natural, but bridge is difiicult without agreements.

Well, I am certainly not sure that 5♣ here is a jump above our game level, because we have not set trumps. So this goes back to if 4♣ is "forcing" (I believe after cue-bid it 100% is), would 5♣ be exclusion blackwood. I go back to rule #1 concerning exclusion blackwood... for me it only applies AFTER a sound trump agreement has been established.

So a jump to 5♣ would not be exclusion. If one exclused exclusion/splinter for this jump (which I think you have to do), that leaves two possible meaings...I have a lot of clubs -- and am unambigiously settng trumps and inviting slam with a heart control. (I cue-bid hearts first to show this control). I think this is the meaning I would apply. This means a jump to 5♣ immediately over 2♥ would deny heart control or at least deny strong slam interest while showing a great club suit (remember doubler might not have all that many clubs).

So you can separate between the jump to 5 clubs and the cue-bid then jump to five clubs. So what would cue-bid, 4♣ followed by 5♣ show? The obvious answer is either a hnad with two places to play (say diamonds and clubs, or spades and clubs). I happen to agree the right way to bid this responder hand is to cue-bid 3♥ and then, cue=bid 4♥, then bid 5♣ over 4♠. If you play it, this FIVE CLUBS would be eclusion for spades, as the second cue-bid, as others have pointed out is clearly agreeing spades, clearly suggesting slam. In fact, I would participate over 4♥ by cue-bidding five clubs. That will not warm partners heart, looking at his void.

But as HAnnie just pointed out.. bridge is difficult without agreements. It would be reasonable I guess to play all in game forcing situations as "exclusion" but lets examine a differnt auction...

(1D)-DBL-(2D)-3D
Pss-3H - (Pass)-4S

Would this 4S be "exclusion". This in an analagous auction. I would take 3♦ as alsm try, and 4♠ as optional.. "partner I was too good just to bid 4♠ on the fly, ball back into your court. By Hannie rule, 3♠ would be forcing, so 4♠ here would be exclusion. I prefer my way. I wonder how many play either of these auctions as exclusion?

[Cascade]

Another auction, another auction we need to discuss ...

(1♥) Dbl (2♥) 3♥
(Pass) 3♠ (Pass) 4♥
(Pass) 4♠ (Pass) 6♠
All Pass

I wasn't sure what alternative actions would have meant over 3♠. 5♣ exclusion RKCB would have been good - again I didn't risk a misunderstanding.

I also didn't risk 5♣ after 4♠. We need some serious discussion here.

With hindsight I think 6♠ is correct at my first turn to call. Aside from anything else it protects my ♦K.

[han]

Ben, I think that there are auctions when you also play exclusion without setting trump. Wouldn't 1S-(3D)-5D be exclusion? This is of course different because they have bid diamonds. I play 1S-(3D)-4H as natural even though 3H is forcing, 4M at first opportunity is usually natural. The auction you give (cuebid followed by a jump to 4S) is tricky, I can imagine playing this both ways. How about this auction:

(1♦)-Dbl-(p)-2♦
(p)-2♥-(p)-3♠

I would play this as a splinter, but I can imagine that some people play that this is natural. Not particularly useful unless you have agreed upon a specific meaning. I think that the same is true for the auction you give.


Cascade was clearly wiser and decided not to make the undiscussed exclusion bid. Did you discuss afterwards whether it would be exclusion? Justin and Josh got into a similar accident... Anybody who has an agreement about these auctions?

[mike777]

Echognome, on Dec 12 2005, 12:20 PM, said:

Dealer: West Vul: Both Scoring: IMP

♠ AQ87 ♥ 54 ♦ Q32 ♣ A973 ♠ KJT96543 ♥ AJ2 ♦ K7 ♣

After West opens 1♥, North will usually double.  East raises to 2♥ and now South must figure out what to do.  South would like to set spades as trumps and then make some slam tries.

One option is for a slam try is to just bash out 6♠ and try to make it.  That would be my choice and was the choice of Harrison-Gray at the time.  I don't think you're going to find partner very cooperative in this auction and why tell the opponents any more than they need to know.

Those that go the scientific route have to start the slow and arduous journey with a cuebid.  South must force and the cuebid is the only forcing bid available.  This makes sense as after a bid and a double, it is hardly common for advancer to need to make slam tries.  So south cuebids 3♥ and North who is minimum for the takeout double will bid 3♠.  What can south do now?  Are spades agreed?  What did the first cue-bid ask?  All important questions for your partnership.

Some souths will cuebid again to force and then over 4♠ from partner a new suit must be agreeing spades.  It's a long route to try to get information out of partner and I think in the end, many will wish they had just bashed.

I see this hand is really famous...thanks for a great set of hands, Matt.

Stick a fork in it, need to go walk the dog. .