[Wackojack]

♣

Scoring: MP

1S-X-3S-P
p-X-P-4C
P-P-P

---

Is East or West to blame for not bidding a virtually certain 5C or is North's bid of 3♠ such a good randomiser that neither can be blamed?

[bearmum]

Wackojack, on Dec 12 2005, 02:00 AM, said:

♣

Scoring: MP

1S-X-3S-P
p-X-P-4C
P-P-P 

---

Is East or West to blame for not bidding a virtually certain 5C or is North's bid of 3♠ such a good randomiser that neither can be blamed?

I would have bid 4♣ over the 3♠ bid THEN P can bid the 5♣


SO to answer the question W is to blame for missing game

[000002]

3NT is Lebenshol in this case (how to spell?)

[bearmum]

000002, on Dec 12 2005, 02:21 AM, said:

3NT is Lebenshol in this case (how to spell?)

OK I don't play Lebensohl

[Fluffy]

Why didn't you bid the almost cold 3NT instead?

[Gerben42]

Quote

3NT is Lebenshol in this case (how to spell?)

Just making up conventions on the spot here, are you? If 3NT is not to play, how do you get to 3NT?

[hrothgar]

000002, on Dec 11 2005, 04:21 PM, said:

3NT is Lebenshol in this case

No

[luke warm]

i think east is at fault for not bidding 5c over the 2nd double (or even 3nt)

[hrothgar]

Comment 1: Its unclear whether East should bid 3NT immediately following the 3♠ preemptive raise. From my perspective, the hand is bit too weak to try for game opposite a standard takeout double.

Comment 2: (And this might sound crazy) I'm not fond of a direct 4♣ either. You're bypassing 3NT which might be the best place to play. Partner could very easily hold a three card club suit (2=4=4=3 or 1=4=5=3 shape's are both much more likely than catching this golden 1=4=3=5)

In short, I think that East is forced too pass

Comment 3: After the second double, I think that 3N stands out.

[000002]

oh is Ew in VUL?
3NT is natural now

[FrancesHinden]

I think 5C on the East cards stands out after the 2nd double.
3NT relies on there being 9 top tricks.
5C needs their not to be 3 losers, which I think is more likely.

Also, I might be too much of an optimist, but 5C will get a raise from partner looking at

-
AKxx
A10xxx
AKxx

while 3NT won't.

[mikeh]

000002, on Dec 11 2005, 09:36 PM, said:

oh is Ew in VUL?
3NT is natural now

3N is NEVER lebensohl! 3N is to play whenever that is even remotely possible.

On the given hand, East cannot bid over 3♠ since West may be minimum: 4♣ would be too much and East has no reason then to expect 3N to have any play. Thus pass is clear.

West has an easy reopening double, and now East must 'sh*t or get off the pot', to use an old expression. 4♣ is a woeful underbid. 3N is slightly better than 5♣ in that it might not end the auction when 3N is hopeless whereas 5♣ puts all of one's eggs into that particular basket. I am probably kidding myself: it is almost impossible for West to pull 3N . That would be my bid nevertheless.

[Al_U_Card]

Seems to me that a second double (over a 2S bid) shows 17+ and over the 3S bid it must be 19 or so......3NT becomes the value bid, but 5C is reasonable at IMPS. (So I blame the 4C bidder.....as long as his pard is consistent with his 2nd doubles etc.)

[000002]

mikeh, on Dec 12 2005, 03:59 PM, said:

000002, on Dec 11 2005, 09:36 PM, said:

oh is Ew in VUL?
3NT is natural now

3N is NEVER lebensohl! 3N is to play whenever that is even remotely possible.

On the given hand, East cannot bid over 3♠ since West may be minimum: 4♣ would be too much and East has no reason then to expect 3N to have any play. Thus pass is clear.

West has an easy reopening double, and now East must 'sh*t or get off the pot', to use an old expression. 4♣ is a woeful underbid. 3N is slightly better than 5♣ in that it might not end the auction when 3N is hopeless whereas 5♣ puts all of one's eggs into that particular basket. I am probably kidding myself: it is almost impossible for West to pull 3N . That would be my bid nevertheless.

we often met a fatal-3nt ,leading by a 5cards-suit ,and a reliable entry.when it's happend,plus 100 is very very good result ,instead of minus 50.

Now ,it's happen.

OFCZ, the doubled contract can be made up, occasionally.