[mila85]

Last night I got this hand: ♠Qxx ♥xx ♦Qxxxx ♣AKJ.
I passed in first seat (if you don't agree you I didn't have ♣J ). At third partner opened 1♠. We play drury so the opening can be subminimum.
RHO overcalled 2♦. I was thinking about pass but vul against not 2♦x doesn't seem to be a winner.
2♠ is a big underbid but if partner has subminimum opening we can be too high after 2NT(3♦).

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My idea is to play double here as normal takeout or drury type hand.
If parner bids 2♥, my 2♠ show 9-11 and 3card support. With 4 spades I would bid normal 2NT(3♦).
If partner bids 2♠ I can pass (dbl. already showed some values) or bid 3♠ if my hand is really nice (or I can use also other 3level bids to be more precise).

I can see three disadvantages:
-It doesn't show a fit immediatly. It can be critical, when opps preemt. But the fit is only 3card so it tends to show balanced hand.
-1♠-(2♣)-dbl-(p) / 2♦ - (p) - ? and 2-4-3-4 hand. You must bid 2♥ (which normaly shows 5bad heards) because 2♠ is drury type hand.
-it can't be used after 1♥ opening so the agreements become a little bit nonsymetric

What do you think about it?

[han]

I think that in competition you are sometimes forced to raise your partner to the 3-level even after a 3rd seat opening. This means that you will sometimes be too high if partner opened light and/or on a 4-card suit. I don't see this as a big problem.

Playing double as either negative or a 3-card limit raise is fine, but it won't always work well. Partner has to rebid 2S with many hands that would make 4S exellent, so you will still have to raise.

[HeartA]

Hannie, on Dec 1 2005, 11:58 AM, said:

I think that in competition you are sometimes forced to raise your partner to the 3-level even after a 3rd seat opening. This means that you will sometimes be too high if partner opened light and/or on a 4-card suit. I don't see this as a big problem.

Playing double as either negative or a 3-card limit raise is fine, but it won't always work well. Partner has to rebid 2S with many hands that would make 4S exellent, so you will still have to raise.

agree with Hannie.

[Winstonm]

A concept I use with my regular partner is that a negative double shows "two places to play." That can bid both unbids, 1 unbid and NT, 1 unbid and partner's suit, or NT and opener's suit. The only exception we make is a 6-card suit single-suit negative double.

With this in mind, the double does not have to be Drury per se, but if your partner bids 2H and you then correct to 2S he should know that your 2-way hand was based on clubs and spades or NT and spades - you wouldn't be suggesting either when holding a weaker spade fit so your bid logically has to be extras. If he rebids 2S, you have a problem and have to chose between 2N and 3S - pass is simply too deep of position to take IMO.

Winston

[mila85]

Hannie, on Dec 1 2005, 11:58 AM, said:

I think that in competition you are sometimes forced to raise your partner to the 3-level even after a 3rd seat opening. This means that you will sometimes be too high if partner opened light and/or on a 4-card suit. I don't see this as a big problem.

I agree.
I wrote that with 4card support I would invite via normal 2nt or cuebid. But with only three card support I don't often want to compete at third level.
e.g. With my example hand I like to double.

Quote

Playing double as either negative or a 3-card limit raise is fine, but it won't always work well. Partner has to rebid 2S with many hands that would make 4S exellent, so you will still have to raise.

This was the first thing I though about. I must agree that with most hands I would bid over 2♠. If I do so, I will be in same contract as if I hadn't this convention (maybe in better because I can show my hand more precisely). I gain if partner responds 2♥ or 2♦ (after 2♣ overcall).
If partner repeats spades he has often six of them (after club overcall it's almost sure) and third level is more reasonable.


Another reason for this convention can be that I like bid 2♠ with pretty weak hands (Kxx x xxxxx xxxx). 3-9 is a wide interval and bidding some 8-9 counts via dbl. can help.

btw With passed hand normal double in this position shows from 99% 4♥ and emergency fit for spades.

I'm mainly interested if you see some disadvantages in it? And do you think that the disadvantages I found are serious?

thanks for your replies

[han]

It is fairly standard to play that a negative double after 1S-2X can also be a 3-card raise, also when partner has opened in 1st or 2nd seat. This usually works fine. The main disadvantage is that you don't get to show your support immediately, which can be a problem when the opponents compete to a higher level.

This disadvantage still holds after partner opened in 3rd or 4th seat. With this hand it seems unlikely, as you hold five cards in their suit. So even if you do not have an agreement, if you double and then bid 2S over 2H or 3S over 2S partner will get the picture.