[adhoc3]

Scoring: IMP

pass----1NT--pass--2♠
Pass#--3♣--3♦--pass
???
1NT 15-17, 2♠ trans to ♣

Your PD is a real expert. DONT against 1NT opening is agreed.

---

What do you bid now? If you pass, LHO will bid 4♣.

Full hand hidden below.

Spoiler

. North: 86, AT85, AQJTxx, x

Spoiler

West: KQT,J7xx,K9,AKQJ, East: xxx, xx, x, T987654

Spoiler

. South: AJ972,KQ9, T832,3

[P_Marlowe]

Partners Pass denied a 6 card diamond suit, but he bid 3D
For all partner knows, responder may hold the missing
points, i.e. he may go for numbers, i.e. partners bid make
no sense, he is playing games.

Leave him alone.

Marlowe

[Chamaco]

IMO, playing DONT, pard's pass denies a destructive hand, not necessarily an unbalanced shape.
The way I learned DONT, the phylosophy of the immediate bid is: "pard, forget any hope for game unless you have a very strong hand, o, at least a very good hand + fit, we are here ONLY to disturb".
Usually, at least the way I play it, the immediate bid denies a reverse, and might go up to minimum opening strength.

With a very good hand that has chances for game, one might choose between 2NT or pass 1st round and bid second round (if the hand is shapely, responder will often transfer).
A hand so strong that it cannot stand a passout is supposed to bid 2NT

Apparently, by bidding freely at the 3 level, pard is showing diamonds with a VERY good hand, say in the 16/17 range with shape.

I would cue 4C here, slam is not out of the picture.

=========

EDIT: I have see the hidden hand, I wonder why pard did not bid at the previous round...

[HeartA]

P_Marlowe, on Dec 1 2005, 10:32 AM, said:

Partners Pass denied a 6 card diamond suit, but he bid 3D
For all partner knows, responder may hold the missing
points, i.e. he may go for numbers, i.e. partners bid make
no sense, he is playing games.

Leave him alone.

Marlowe

This is too pessimistic. I would bid 3S to invite game.

[han]

I am not yet convinced that partner is a "real expert" whatever that means.

[mikeh]

I assume that I doubled 2♠: the notation was unclear: I either passed or doubled, and the hand suggests the latter.

I would expect my expert partner to have a ♠ fit and a good side ♦ suit that he did not want to introduce via double (if 3=1=6=3 for example) or 2♦ (if 4=2=5=2 or the like for example).

I have a great hand in context and my choices seem to be to bid 4♠ or offer a probe with 4♦. 4♠ may be in jeopardy on some holdings, especially if ♠ break badly and he is minimum. 4♦ seems best: he already knows of my 5+♠ suit and now he can assess his hand (I hope).

I would expect something like Kxx xx AQxxxx xx: maybe I should just bid game, but if he has Kxx xx KQxxxx xx, I'll be happier in 4♦.

Edit: i have just seen partner's hand: he is not an expert. Or if he is, he had a brain-fart.

[Kalvan14]

Cherdano has correctly explained DONT approach. An overcall after the pass at 1st round is STRONGER. Why pard passed is anyone guess: this is certainly a maximum for a DONT intervention, but it is not strong enough to wait one round (it might have to bid over 4♠, btw )
Assuming that I doubled 2♠, my bid would be 4♣.

Even if pard has misbid, 5♦ is a very good contract

[Gerben42]

Opp will not be 4♣ as I will before he does. Try for 5♦.

[cherdano]

I expect partner has a reasonable hand that suddenly has some useful shape. I would bet on 4 small clubs, and five reasonably good diamonds, and some useful highcards elsewhere -- such a hand might prefer defending 1NT to declaring 2♦ (or push the opponents into 2M). I would invite with 4♦.

Arend

[Robert]

Hello everyone

If partner is a decent player, I will trust parnter and bid 4C to show my great hand.

I assume that I did not double 2S on my last turn.

Did someone leave out an alert bid by the 2S* call? Was it really supposed to be a transfer to clubs?

That explanation would change the auction quite a bit. Partner could be 'pre balancing' rather than showing a pretty decent hand.

Regards,
Robert

[FrancesHinden]

I'm not used to a method where you pass over 1NT with a good hand.

I don't play any methods in any auction (not just over 1NT) which involve passing on a good distributional hand.

Anyway,

i) I would have doubled 2S. Had I done so, I assume partner's 3D is showing spade support and I bid 4S.

ii) If I passed over 2S, I now bid 3S which should show diamonds and spades, but will pass 4D because partner could be pre-balancing.

[pigpenz]

i would just bid 4♦ since partner knows what he is doing

[Al_U_Card]

FrancesHinden, on Dec 2 2005, 10:34 AM, said:

I'm not used to a method where you pass over 1NT with a good hand.

I don't play any methods in any auction (not just over 1NT) which involve passing on a good distributional hand.

Anyway,

i) I would have doubled 2S.  Had I done so, I assume partner's 3D is showing spade support and I bid 4S.

ii) If I passed over 2S, I now bid 3S which should show diamonds and spades, but will pass 4D because partner could be pre-balancing.

Have to agree totally. I would have doubled 2S and now the D bid makes sense. (more than the 2 D tens shared by N/S)

[mikeh]

FrancesHinden, on Dec 2 2005, 10:34 AM, said:

I'm not used to a method where you pass over 1NT with a good hand.

I don't play any methods in any auction (not just over 1NT) which involve passing on a good distributional hand.

Anyway,

i) I would have doubled 2S.  Had I done so, I assume partner's 3D is showing spade support and I bid 4S.

ii) If I passed over 2S, I now bid 3S which should show diamonds and spades, but will pass 4D because partner could be pre-balancing.

I agree as well: in fact I think that the statement that DONT calls for passing with a strong hand is incorrect: I dont believe it to be mainstream: I have played dont a number of times with varying partners, and have not heard of this interpretation.

Logic suggests it is wrong. Just because the opps open a 15-17 NT does not mean we have no game nor that we cannot reach it. Admittedly, DONT is geared towards disruption but nothing prevents advancer from making a positive move with a good fitting hand.

Furthermore, it is fundamentally unsound to wait for responder to transfer (let's say) and opener to accept the transfer before bidding. Responder's hand will be unlimited, hence potentially a zero count or about to look for slam, and now we have to begin bidding??? Not for me, thanks.

I think that this idea is a corruption of a more common approach to the defence to strong ♣ openings, where some defensive methods involve passing with strong balanced hands to see if responder has a negative bid (come back in) or a positive (be glad you stayed out and have hidden your strength from declarer).

[Winstonm]

The only thing that makes sense to me is that partner has a hand he thought had reasonable chances to defeat 1N if he was on lead - hence, no reason to butt into the bidding over 1N - but now that the opponents have moved out of 1N he must feel the best chances for a plus score is bidding. What hand fits this concept?

Maybe hands like this:

xx, Ax, AQJxxxx, xx.
x, Axx, AKJ9xxx, xxx
xx, Ax, KQJxxxx, xx

As this is the only thing that makes sense to me and the prospects for slam are somewhat remote, I think I'll take all the pressure off partner and bid a simple and direct 5D.

Winston

[Winstonm]

On the subject of DONT, once again I point out that it is severely flawed as an immediate seat convention with good hands. With 2-suited hands, the only time you can move is when partner has no fit for your first suit. With a fit he will pass, and I've found it very difficult to invite or bid game when partner passes. The other option with good hands is to pass - again, I've found it almost impossible to bid a game or good partscore when it goes: 1N-P-P-P. So with a strong hand playing DONT, you have a 1 chance in 3 of being able to invite or bid game - when partner doesn't fit your first suit - which then reduces the likelihood of game - go figure. A possible solution is to use 3-level DONT bids for strong hands, which would be OK if you found a fit but would really suck if you didn't.

I used to play DONT and abandoned it for these reasons; however, I am still convinced it has merit as a passout seat option, especially at matchpoints.

Winston

[Kalvan14]

In Dont, you still have 2NT to show a strong 2-suiter.
If you have a 1-suiter, double and then 3-level.
Frankly, how many times did you play game after a strong 1NT opening?

[Fluffy]

3♠ could do the trick, but partner might suspect we didn't double ebcause we were being just fishy. Althou that looks stupid. I think 3♠ is the best bid.

[ArcLight]

Winston,
Mike Lawrence has a booklet (56 pages) explaining DONT. The 2NT bid shows the "BIG" hand.

But its very rare that it comes up, and probably most people even know about it.


People have posted they dont like DONT because it might not "disturb" that much. But it doesn't expose you to horrible penalties like some of the other conventions becaus eit keeps you lower and allows the opps to compete in a suit part score.
Bidding to the 3 level in a minor can result in some severe penalties on occasion.

In his CD on conventions, Mike Lawrence wrote something to the effect of "it doesn't matter that much which convention you use, as long as you use some convention against the opponents No Trump". He rated DONT 2.5 out of 5, and didn't present any other, he may have liked its simplicity.