[adhoc3]

Scoring: IMP

West opened 1♥. North covered by 2♦. How to bid slam?

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I was sitting south playing with random partner. What happened on my table was a tragedy.
1♥--2♦----P---2♥
P----3♣---P----3♠
P----3NT--P----4♦
P----P!----P//

[Kalvan14]

Seeing north hand, 3N is almost as surprising as the pass
Dunno why he refrained from bidding 4♣: I start to think that he believed S had both majors

[kenrexford]

How to bid slam? After 3C, bid 3S. When partner bids 3NT, set trumps by bidding 4D. So far, this sounds familiar, eh?

When partner now picks 4H as RKCB for diamonds, rather than pass, you get to show your critical two keys and the queen (5D). Unless partner cannot resist his urge to pass (apparently unlikely), he should now count tricks and bid slam.

If this hand came up again, with the same partner, you have an easy call. Partner apparently fears that game will not make with 6511 pattern, your preference for his 6-bagger, six losers, and your reverse. Hence, when partner did not panick and pass 1H, I'd leap to slam with a fit.

[Robert]

Hello everyone

(1H)-2D-2H*-3C-4D*-4H*-5D*-6D
2H*=limit+
3C=help suit game try
4D*=GF
4H*=Kickback(RKC 41-30)
5D*=two Aces + trump Q
6D

Hello kenrexford

I count five losers, not six. One in each major, 2 in clubs and 1 in diamonds.

Regards,
Robert

[joker_gib]

3NT and pass on 4♦ are out of this world !

1♥--2♦----P--2♥
P----3♣---P--3♠
P----4♣--P----4♦
P----4♥--P--4NT
P---5♥--P--6♦

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

to answer your question: 3S was a game force,
(I voted No, but this is wrong),
.... but you dont have a 3S call.

3S shows a strong suit and at least a 5 carder, and it also
denies (primary) support for partners suit,
... 2H does not show support, altough most of the time
you will have support.

To make live simpler for your partner, bid 4D instead
of 3S, this is clearly forward going and forcing and
clarifies the trump suit.
The only other alternative I see would be 3NT from your
side, which would be an underbid, but only by an Ace.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[joker_gib]

P_Marlowe, on Dec 1 2005, 12:34 PM, said:

Hi,

to answer your question: 3S was a game force,
(I voted No, but this is wrong),
.... but you dont have a 3S call.

3S shows a strong suit and at least a 5 carder, and it also
denies (primary) support for partners suit,
... 2H does not show support, altough most of the time
you will have support.

To make live simpler for your partner, bid 4D instead
of 3S, this is clearly forward going and forcing and
clarifies the trump suit.
The only other alternative I see would be 3NT from your
side, which would be an underbid, but only by an Ace.

With kind regards
Marlowe

I of course agree that 3♠ is just confusing and 4♦ is better but I just wanted to keep the maximum of the first auction to show how bad 3NT and the Pass on 4♦ were.

Alain

[kenrexford]

You are right, Robert. Five losers. ;-) Hence, almost a 7D bid for this person's partner. LOL

[bearmum]

Robert, on Dec 1 2005, 09:40 PM, said:

Hello everyone

(1H)-2D-2H*-3C-4D*-4H*-5D*-6D
2H*=limit+
3C=help suit game try
4D*=GF
4H*=Kickback(RKC 41-30)
5D*=two Aces + trump Q
6D

Hello kenrexford

I count five losers, not six.  One in each major, 2 in clubs and 1 in diamonds.

Regards,
Robert

This was with RANDOM (rather than your regular )partner MAYBE "kickback" not an option ( as LOTS of folks [including me] ) don't play it with reg partner(cos we don't need it in our system -- not for any other reason) and certainly even if they DO know kickback would not assume it applies without specific agreement

HOWEVER surely the 3♠ bid IS imho GAME force

BTW -- had I had the N hand I would NOT have bid ONLY 2♦ -- I would bid UNUSUAL 2NT for minors ( which I would hope a pickup partner would recognise cos it's fairly 'standard' over a major opening)


BUT on the actual bidding (horrible tho it is ;)imo ) I believe 3♠ is an ABSOLUTE game force and therefore as such N should have bid 6♦

[P_Marlowe]

bearmum, on Dec 1 2005, 08:48 AM, said:

Robert, on Dec 1 2005, 09:40 PM, said:

Hello everyone

(1H)-2D-2H*-3C-4D*-4H*-5D*-6D
2H*=limit+
3C=help suit game try
4D*=GF
4H*=Kickback(RKC 41-30)
5D*=two Aces + trump Q
6D

Hello kenrexford

I count five losers, not six.  One in each major, 2 in clubs and 1 in diamonds.

Regards,
Robert

This was with RANDOM (rather than your regular )partner MAYBE "kickback" not an option ( as LOTS of folks [including me] ) don't play it with reg partner(cos we don't need it in our system -- not for any other reason) and certainly even if they DO know kickback would not assume it applies without specific agreement

HOWEVER surely the 3♠ bid IS imho GAME force

BTW -- had I had the N hand I would NOT have bid ONLY 2♦ -- I would bid UNUSUAL 2NT for minors ( which I would hope a pickup partner would recognise cos it's fairly 'standard' over a major opening)


BUT on the actual bidding (horrible tho it is ;)imo ) I believe 3♠ is an ABSOLUTE game force and therefore as such N should have bid 6♦

Hi,

with a pickup partner,
I would not even have bid 2H.

Marlowe

[Robert]

Hello P_Marlowe

The post was, "How to bid slam?" I posted my suggested slam auction.

We both agree that any reasonable bidding with this 'random' partner would not include any 'Kickback' type RKC bids. I would also not cue bid or 'jump raise' his diamonds to 'agree diamonds.'

Playing with this random partner, I would sit quietly and just try to survive the ordeal.

There was a '3S' bid in the actual auction and this 'random' partner managed to pass a later 'forcing' 4D bid.

We again agree that the 3S bid 'should have been forcing.' Alas, what you and I and your regular partner would play is 'not' what this 'random' player apparently plays.

BTW opposite this random player 'or' a regular partner, I would have overcalled 2Ds. Fairly standard bidding opposite 'this random player' is not recommended bidding.

Partners often make the wrong choice holding "xx" of both minors after a 2NT bid. They would normally bid 3Cs.

This hand would have problems taking major 'forces' while trying to pull trumps. The diamond suit would play better opposite "xx" type holdings.

Also people tend to double less freguently when you hold a trump suit as strong as this diamond holding. The much weaker club suit is much more likely to attract a double.

A regular partner of mine would expect me to overcall 2Ds and later rebid clubs. A jump to 2NT would suggest more 'even suit quality' and would also suggest a somewhat weaker hand type in my bidding 'style.'

Our random partner has already been known to pass 'forcing bids' so using any conventional bids with him is not a very good idea(IMHO)

I switched to RKC several decades ago. I had just bid to 6S holding 33HCP, however, there was one slight problem because the Ace and King of trumps were the missing seven HCPs.

Best regards,
Robert

[mike777]

One more example to just play Bergen rules.
When opp open at the one level give up on slam, Just bid game and move on to next hand. Typical example where you try for very difficult to bid minor suit slam and end up in confusion, not for the first time I bet.

[Fluffy]

.--.-.-.-(1♥)
2NT-3♥
4♦-4♠
5♣-6♦


The qustion of if 3♠ was GF is not the proper question since 3♣ is already GF.