[Al_U_Card]

CANT (Compete Against NT)

2C is the relay bid that allows for 2 sets of responses (going thru the relay or not)

2 Clubs ... A relay to 2 diamonds.
2C-2D- Pass ... Diamonds.
“ 2 H ... Hearts.
“ 2 S ... Spades.
“ 2 NT ... At least 4+/4+ in the minors (better clubs).
“ 3 C ... Clubs.
“ 3 D ... A three-suiter with club shortness.

2 Diamonds ... At least 4+/4+ in diamonds and a major suit.
2 Hearts ... At least 4+/4+ in hearts and a black suit.
2 Spades ... At least 4+/4+ in spades and clubs.
2 NT ... At least 4+/4+ in the minors (better diamonds).
3 Clubs ... A three-suiter with clubs (unspecified shortness).
Double ... A six trick hand. Either a 1-suited hand, with sure side suit entry(ies), or a balanced 15-18 HCP.

[Gerben42]

Nice, but... what if opponents interfere with your relay?

[mr1303]

And another thing: what if advancer has a goodish hand?

[Al_U_Card]

Gerben42, on Nov 24 2005, 10:00 AM, said:

Nice, but... what if opponents interfere with your relay?

Pretty much the same as any interference, since i am bidding on something (values or shape) I use the structure that pard can get in with a double (either cards or a suit) or a bid showing the lower ranking of 2 suits. Even better if they double as that allows for more information exchange regarding pass, rdbl or accepting the relay etc.

[Al_U_Card]

mr1303, on Nov 24 2005, 10:22 AM, said:

And another thing: what if advancer has a goodish hand?

Always. if pard "refuses" the puppet he is showing "values" so even after the relay, any bid shows the suit and a desire to play and not defend, 2NT shows an opening balanced hand and pass shows clubs (if the relay) or the suit offered.

[Gerben42]

The big problem is that 2♣ shows any 1-suiter among other things. This is already terrible in Capp. and now you add some more options. What will happen frequently is something like:

1NT (2♣) 2♠ and now responder won't ever be able to bid, and overcaller also not unless he was planning to bid on the 3-level anyway which he should have done the round before.

[Al_U_Card]

True enuf, but 3H and 3S are pre-emptive and if the suit wasn't long enough for that or the hand not good enough to double then maybe it is their hand and they will have to guess to what level they should go and then pard may want to get involved.

[MickyB]

Gerben42, on Nov 24 2005, 04:45 PM, said:

The big problem is that 2♣ shows any 1-suiter among other things. This is already terrible in Capp. and now you add some more options.

Indeed - might be better to switch all the calls from 2H upwards with 2C:2D, 2H so single suiters can show themselves immediately.

[glen]

You can't use cant, or at least shouldn't use the name since already parked here:

http://www.bridgemat....com/overnt.htm

[Al_U_Card]

MickyB, on Nov 24 2005, 12:33 PM, said:

Gerben42, on Nov 24 2005, 04:45 PM, said:

The big problem is that 2♣ shows any 1-suiter among other things. This is already terrible in Capp. and now you add some more options.

Indeed - might be better to switch all the calls from 2H upwards with 2C:2D, 2H so single suiters can show themselves immediately.

Possibly, but in practice I've found that the 2 suiters do better at the higher level, especially H and a black suit or S with Clubs as pard can bid 2NT to show he really likes the C suit.

[Al_U_Card]

officeglen, on Nov 24 2005, 01:10 PM, said:

You can't use cant, or at least shouldn't use the name since already parked here:

http://www.bridgemat....com/overnt.htm

Darn, I knew I should have copywrit the name 15 yrs ago.........still it works well no matter what it gets called (and I do like this version to what is described on that site but I never played it so.....

[Stephen Tu]

I don't think that this is a particularly good structure. With which hand types do you think you show a frequent significant gain vs. other structures?

The 2c bid is prone to preemption, same defect as a Capp 2c. 2H showing hearts + a black is going to lead to some bad guessing. If partner is say 4252 or something like that, does he pull to 2S? This could get you into a lot of trouble if you are say x5x4 or x5x5 (much easier for opponents to hit you at the 3 level, or to go down 2 vul undoubled). But if you are 54xx, not pulling to 2S looks ridiculous. If partner is 5341, similarly he has to pass 2H in case you have clubs, but you could miss a substantially better spade fit. 2S showing spades & clubs is also troublesome, since you are only guaranteeing 4 spades. This type of bid works better if you guarantee 5, so partner can leave you in the 5-2 rather than pulling to his tripleton club. If you only have a 7 cd fit, you are more likely to survive if you stay at the 2 level.

I much prefer Woolsey, Lionel, or the defense awm posted here

[Robert]

Hello everyone

Several of these auctions seem to be jumping off of a cliff in the night 'guessing' that the drop will be short.

2C-2D-2NT showing 4+/4+ minors appears to be an unbid without at least ten cards in 'known' minor shapes. Even a 5-3 fit at the three level could suffer from a 4-1 break.

2C-2D-3D showing a three suiter with short clubs also should fail when partner has wasted club values and also does 'not' have an exceptional fit.

That auction ending in 2Hs, showing hearts plus 'either' spades or clubs is dangerous. "If' you want to get out of hearts into spades, you must hold spades plus clubs 'playable at the three level. You cannot move directly to three clubs because your partner might hold the majors.

The auction ending in 3Cs showing clubs and a 3 suiter with 'any' shortness is playing with dynamite with a short burning fuse. A 4-4 fit is not a good sign at the three level. You cannot choose another suit at the three level without being able to play in at least two suits.

I play negative doubles from both sides of the table and 'if' either side doubles for takeout, this can become a bloody mess at the two level. If you drive to the three level, the Red cards can appear with blinding speed(in tempo of course!)

Almost any suit bidding by the NT pair will often put a large spoke in the wheels of this convention.

As you might have guessed, I am not switching to this method.

Regards,
Robert

[Al_U_Card]

The best system that I have seen in the last 20 years of duplicate play is.........good judgement (no surprise). No bidding method can possibly be a panacea. Some work better than others but give up important (to some) aspects of the game (preemption, flexibility, secrecy heck even confusion).

The proliferation of methods just exemplifies human nature and our desire to tinker with (improve) a good thing. I also play a semi-transfer method over NT that also works well but I believe that the judicious application of your methods, whatever they may be, far outweighs the importance of the method itself.