[whereagles]

ahhh an overbidder. Glad I bid 5♣

[Al_U_Card]

Fluffy, on Nov 24 2005, 10:54 AM, said:

This time partner held....

---

Nobody followed my 5♦ bid, planing to bid slam only if partner had ♥+♣ .

He couldn't bid 5H to play?

[Fluffy]

Al_U_Card, on Nov 24 2005, 08:04 PM, said:

Fluffy, on Nov 24 2005, 10:54 AM, said:

This time partner held....

Dealer: ????? Vul: ???? Scoring: Unknown

♠ xx ♥ Qxxxx ♦ J10xxx ♣ x

Nobody followed my 5♦ bid, planing to bid slam only if partner had ♥+♣ .

He couldn't bid 5H to play?

sure, but 9 trumps often play better than 8 at teh 5 level. Mostly because the 8 card suit is harder to be ruffed.

[beatrix45]

Earth to BBO forum members. A full one-third of the forum responders want to stop at game DESPITE HAVING AN ACE AND A KING EXTRA.

I really like the suggestion to bid 5♠ as a way to get to a small slam while suggesting that a grand might be there, albeit not often, maybe one time in twenty.


P.S. AAAAAARGH! I just went back through the postings saw partner's actual hand. How can you play bridge with a partner who bids like that?? I hope it's for money, because it certainly isn't good for your bridge game to play opposite looney tunes whose bids are just random efforts.

[Al_U_Card]

Fluffy, on Nov 24 2005, 04:40 PM, said:

Al_U_Card, on Nov 24 2005, 08:04 PM, said:

Fluffy, on Nov 24 2005, 10:54 AM, said:

This time partner held....


<!-- ONEHAND begin --><table border='1'> <tr> <td> <table> <tr> <td> Dealer: </td> <td> ????? </td> </tr> <tr> <td> Vul: </td> <td> ???? </td> </tr> <tr> <td> Scoring: </td> <td> Unknown </td> </tr> </table> </td> <td> <table> <tr> <th> <span class='spades'> ♠ </span> </th> <td> xx </td> </tr> <tr> <th> <span class='hearts'> ♥ </span> </th> <td> Qxxxx </td> </tr> <tr> <th> <span class='diamonds'> ♦ </span> </th> <td> J10xxx </td> </tr> <tr> <th> <span class='clubs'> ♣ </span> </th> <td> x </td> </tr> </table> </td> <td>  </td> </tr> </table><!-- ONEHAND end -->


Nobody followed my 5♦ bid, planing to bid slam only if partner had ♥+♣ .

He couldn't bid 5H to play?

sure, but 9 trumps often play better than 8 at teh 5 level. Mostly because the 8 card suit is harder to be ruffed.

not sure I follow. aren't both red suits 9 card fits? And opposite the t/o dbl that pard SHOULD have (4H cards and an ace better than an opening hand) I would think that 5H is the only option, hoping that the presumed dbl fit produces enough tricks to make.

[mikeh]

beatrix45, on Nov 24 2005, 10:37 PM, said:

P.S. AAAAAARGH! I just went back through the postings saw partner's actual hand.  How can you play bridge with a partner who bids like that??  I hope it's for money, because it certainly isn't good for your bridge game to play opposite looney tunes whose bids are just random efforts.

Welcome to the wonderful, wacky world of aggressive bidding.

I would have bid 5♥, not 4N, with partner's hand, and I would have been pushing the boundaries of my style envelope, but I believe bidding to be correct rather than passing.

I used to believe that the secret to winning bridge was avoiding disaster: so long as we played our cards well, and bid well constructively, we would prevail unless we went for numbers. I enjoyed modest success.

Then I formed a partnership with a truly fine player whose style was quite different. I learned to play a game in which we attempted to create disasters: and we did not mind that they were occasionally our disasters, so long as the style created more problems for the opps. When you are playing against players whose constructive bidding and card play is as good as yours (or, unlikely as it may seem, better than yours ), you need to create an edge.

So get in there and mix it up.

Bidding 5♥ rates to gain when:

they make 4♠: surely a strong possibility on the auction

they take the push to 5♠

you can make 5♥

both sides can make their contract


It loses only when

both contracts fail or

partner cannot take a joke and bids again, or

you have a real hand and partner passes out of fear that you hold this piece of cheese and a slam is missed

I make it 4 reasons to bid and three not to bid, with the giving up on slam as the least frequent.

The style seems to be effective, at a cost which is less than the gain.

I recognize that passing does not rule out bidding if partner reopens with a double, but that may well not happen and when it does, the opps will more often do the right thing after that slow auction than if you bid immediately.

BTW, this approach gave me two immediate advantages:

my results in (what were for me) significant events (my country's team trials) improved significantly

and, even more importantly, my fun quotient sky-rocketed: I love to bid

But partner must be attuned to the style: hence my 5♣ call on the problem.

[cherdano]

I still don't understand the 5♠ bidders. Bidding 5♠ over 5N just because you have a first round control seems like lazy thinking to me. Are you really dreaming of a grand slam? Either opener has 6-7 pts in the remaining suit, in which case a grand slam can hardly be good. Or he has distribution and still a few points, in which case a grand slam can hardly be good.

Ok, if you still think of a grand slam, then I can't convince you.

If we give up on a grand slam, its all about getting to the right strain. Then 5N must be better, because we thus FORCE partner to bid his best suit. With a 6511 hand he might well bid 5N over 5♠ and we end in a 9-card instead of a 10-card fit, conceding a ruff at trick two. I have nothing useful to say at all over 5N. I would bid 5♠ here with a 5440 or 5431 hand, when I would be delighted to suggest the strain over 5N from partner.

Arend

[han]

Arend, it's not that big a deal. If partner bids 5NT over 5S then you can just bid 5D. Partner will pass with diamonds and correct to 5H with the rounded suits.

Still, 5NT (pick a slam) will guarantee the best fit.

[beatrix45]

mikeh, on Nov 25 2005, 11:01 AM, said:

Bidding 5♥ rates to gain when:
they make 4♠: surely a strong possibility on the auction
they take the push to 5♠
you can make 5♥
both sides can make their contract

It loses only when
both contracts fail or
partner cannot take a joke and bids again, or
you have a real hand and partner passes out of fear that you hold this piece of cheese and a slam is missed

I make it 4 reasons to bid and three not to bid, with the giving up on slam as the least frequent.

Did I fail to mention that I would have bid 5♥ like a shot with that hand? The point is that 4NT is like a cue bid; it is constructive.

Applying LOTT, I can see 19 or (maybe) 20 total tricks, so bidding 5♥ won't lose very often.

[cherdano]

Hannie, on Nov 25 2005, 08:54 PM, said:

Arend, it's not that big a deal. If partner bids 5NT over 5S then you can just bid 5D. Partner will pass with diamonds and correct to 5H with the rounded suits.

Still, 5NT (pick a slam) will guarantee the best fit.

I assume you mean 6 of them. I understand but I would prefer to get to the best fit, not just some fit here.