[Chamaco]

Hmm, I tend to deviate from the opinion of most experts that would rebid 2S after the double.
Of course this makes me suspicious , so I'd appreciate feedback on my line of reasoning, given below.

Incidentally, I agree with all the folks that would overcall 1S at the first round.

==============

What are the suit requirements of double followed by bid of own suit ?

If the requirements are having a decent 6 card suit OR a VERY GOOD (at the very least AKTxx) 5 card suit, then this hand does not comply.

I think that the risks of double + new suit is greater than missing a 5-3 fit in spades (likely if we double again), which might well not exist at all: indeed, if pard is very weak with a singleton or void in spades, he should pass (if we double then bid a suit and he is broke, he will assume our suit is good and pass before it's too late), and that is the last thing I want.

Pard will read my 2nd double as "cards", mostly takeout oriented, and frankly, even in the worse case scenario (we miss 53 fit in spades), our hand offers enough safety in any suit pard can pull to (likely diamonds).

[mikeh]

I would never have doubled first: I am not the least bit worried about bidding 1♠ directly. This is a filthy 19 count: a more accurate hint at its relative strength is a LTC of 6: only one better than a typical minimum opening bid.

It is a question of style and agreement, but it is common expert practive to respond to an overcall (if you have a fit) with the same strength with which you would raise an opening bid. This hand will not likely produce game unless partner can bid freely over 1♠.

Indeed, it is far from clear that you are worth 4♠ over a raise! Give him Kxx Jxx xxxx Kxx and you will lose 2♣, a ruff and the ♦A and (on a really bad day) another trump.

That should give you a clue that maybe this is not the same as AKJxxx Axx KQx x: a more typical hand for double and ♠. That hand has 'only' 17 hcp, but it is infinitely stronger than the posted hand.

Having misclicked originally, I will now try to salvage something by bidding 2♠: I will claim that I had a ♣ in with my ♠ suit.

I will not risk a double since partner may bid 2♥ with 3=3 majors or (more likely) 2♦, either of which leave me in horrible shape.

[Chamaco]

mikeh, on Nov 14 2005, 05:16 PM, said:

I will not risk a double since partner may bid 2♥ with 3=3 majors or (more likely) 2♦, either of which leave me in horrible shape.

There also the risk of playing in a 5-1 or 5-0 spades fit...
That would also leave us in a terrible place, no ?

(especially if we have a 5-2 fit available in diamonds)

[mikeh]

Justin: I qualified my answer by 'if you have a fit': I agree that one does not respond to a major suit overcall with the kind of hand that you showed, but with xxx in ♠ and a 7 count, I would respond. I like and usually play transfer advances, so that my 2♠ direct raise will not be taken seriously, but even when not playing that method, I would squeak 2♠ with xxx Kx Kxxx Jxxx (or slightly worse)

[Flame]

Chamaco, on Nov 14 2005, 12:28 PM, said:

mikeh, on Nov 14 2005, 05:16 PM, said:

I will not risk a double since partner may bid 2♥ with 3=3 majors or (more likely) 2♦, either of which leave me in horrible shape.

I never ment to pass partner's 2!H, as i said in the oginal post, my plan was to pull 2H to 2S, this i thouhgt would show a strong hand with 5 spades but not great 5S/6S and would 2S now show. What do you think 2S over 2H will show if not this ?
agree this hand should have initially bid 1S, but just add K of club or something and consider the same question.

[mikeh]

Flame, on Nov 14 2005, 02:09 PM, said:

agree this hand should have initially bid 1S, but just add K of club or something and consider the same question.

Add the ♣K and I'd suppress the ♠ suit altogether: double then jump to 2N. (I doubt that the 1♣ bidder could bid 2♣ if you give me his ♣K ) If by chance he did bid 2♣, I'd double again and then bid 2N.

[luis]

I also abstain I would have overcalled 1♠ in the first round.

Luis

[han]

Seems that there should be an "abstain" option added to the poll. That way we abstainers could at least see what the poll results are.

[Trpltrbl]

I overcall 1♠, granted I have 19, but with way too many losers.
So then I would have to double the 2nd time around.
It's not always about the points in your hand, sometimes they are just to ugly to count for full facevalue.

GBB

[000002]

TO those adorable 1♠ overcaller:

LOSE game with this hand,to play a down-set contract 1♠

x
Jxxxxx
Jxxx
xx

GOOD LUCKS in your life, 1♠ overcaller:-)

regards

[Robert]

hello 000002

If any of the bids from the list below occur, you are allowed another chance to 'double or redouble.' If partner does not bid game over your double, you may decide to raise his heart bid(to 3Hs or even game?) because you hold this magnificent 'six loser' hand.

1) I cannot remember the last time that I overcalled with a one bid and I missed a game.

2) How often does the other pair and 'also' your partner pass out a one level overcall that just happens to also miss a biddable game?

3) The bridge odds suggest that someone will take another bid in this auction after
(1C)-1S

4) The other pair does hold 19HCP. If RHO has 18-19HCP, he will likely reopen either with 1NT or a takeout double.

5) LHO is a heavy favorite to hold 6-8HCP and at least one spade stopper in this auction. Many people bid 1NT holding 6-8HCP and a stopper in the overcalled suit.

6) I play negative free bids, so I tend to bid any decent suit 'when it is my turn to bid.' A negative free bid is unlikely on this example hand.

7) You might be surprised and hear RHO reopen with 1NT.

8) Opener will sometimes reopen with a take out double. It is much less likely here because you carefully gave partner a stiff spade and six hearts.

9) The other pair does have 19HCP between them. They also have an 8 card club fit. Unless the clubs are 4-4, one of them holds 5(+) clubs. If the clubs are divided 4-4 LHO will sometimes make a club raise.

10) Opener will often rebid 2Cs when holding 5(6+) clubs.

11) If RHO has 5 spades, opener has two spades and might reopen with a takeout double. 2=3=4=4 shapes are also likely to make a takeout double by RHO

12) If the other pair normally passes out one level overcalls, would you ask them to play at my table?

The heavy overcall style has served me well for several decades.

Are you sure that doubling and rebidding a 'poor' Ace fifth suits 'with a six loser hand' is good bridge? A number of very good players will argue that point with you.

Regards,
Robert

[mikeh]

000002, on Nov 14 2005, 09:08 PM, said:

TO those adorable 1♠ overcaller:

LOSE game with this hand,to play a down-set contract 1♠

x
Jxxxxx
Jxxx
xx

GOOD LUCKS in your life, 1♠ overcaller:-)

regards

Let me suggest a couple of things:

1) read the comments by those of us who prefer 1♠. You may find something there worth thinking about rather than your cavalier dismissal

2) if in doubt, google some of the posters and see if their bridge credentials exceed yours... if they do, maybe you should consider whether their achievements are based on luck, superior team-mates or, just possibly, a better understanding of the game than you may currently possess. I am not attacking your talents but I do suspect your experience level, based on your post. One of the hallmarks of the skilled player is the willingness to think about other approaches, especially those espoused by more experienced players.

3) don't design your approach to bidding to be such that you NEVER miss a game. I assure you that any such method will be a disaster: you will get way too high on far too many boards, chasing the moonbeams of magic hands.

[000002]

hi mikeh
if you lose a 70% slam ,it's not the end of bridge world. BUT, if you lose a 70% slam and play a partscore contract, it's humiliating to me indeed.Just like an chineses team playing Bermuda ,lose a 7♠ to defense a 3♦ contract preempted by usa1(MR Nickll?) . I think it's a discreditable to 130000000 chineses!

Ditto, if you lose a 4♥ game to play 1♠contract---and down1, i am regret for you.


regards

000002

[000002]

hi Robert

it's an exemple:

is't possible to pass out 1♠?

---

REGARDS

[Flame]

000002, on Nov 15 2005, 05:46 AM, said:

hi mikeh
if you lose a 70% slam ,it's not the end of bridge world. BUT, if you lose a 70% slam and play a partscore contract, it's humiliating to me indeed.Just like an chineses team playing Bermuda ,lose a 7♠ to defense a 3♦ contract preempted by usa1(MR Nickll?) . I think it's a discreditable to 130000000 chineses!

Ditto, if you lose a 4♥ game to play 1♠contract---and down1, i am regret for you.


regards

000002

Its so sad to see people who doesnt want to learn.

[han]

000002, on Nov 15 2005, 05:46 AM, said:

hi mikeh
if you lose a 70% slam ,it's not the end of bridge world. BUT, if you lose a 70% slam and play a partscore contract, it's humiliating to me indeed.Just like an chineses team playing Bermuda ,lose a 7♠ to defense a 3♦ contract preempted by usa1(MR Nickll?) . I think it's a discreditable to 130000000 chineses!

Ditto, if you lose a 4♥ game to play 1♠contract---and down1, i am regret for you.


regards

000002

I nominate this for the worst post written in 2005.

The Chinese team played very very well, they were certainly worthy to represent the 1300000000 Chinese. Bridge is a game of mistakes, if you are not willing to make mistakes then you should not play bridge. Please don't burn your team for making a mistake.

[000002]

Hannie, on Nov 15 2005, 02:22 PM, said:

000002, on Nov 15 2005, 05:46 AM, said:

hi mikeh
if you lose a 70% slam ,it's not the end of bridge world. BUT, if you lose a 70% slam and play a partscore contract, it's humiliating to me indeed.Just like an chineses team playing Bermuda ,lose a 7♠ to defense a 3♦ contract preempted by usa1(MR Nickll?) . I think it's a discreditable to 130000000 chineses!

Ditto, if you lose a 4♥ game to play 1♠contract---and down1, i am regret for you.


regards

000002

I nominate this for the worst post written in 2005.

The Chinese team played very very well, they were certainly worthy to represent the 1300000000 Chinese. Bridge is a game of mistakes, if you are not willing to make mistakes then you should not play bridge. Please don't burn your team for making a mistake.

I illustrate (chinese team) to those 1♠ suggestion,it's a serious accident on the table(chinese "forgot" open and "forgot"balanced).
If you ovecall a simple 1♠ which 7-19HCPs possible here, no way to distinguish this interspace(12p) LATER.