[inquiry]

Flytoox suggested in another thread that...the response after pd open and RHO dbl when you hold a strong hand is a good topic for discussion..

http://forums.bridgebase.com/in...msg6911#msg6911

So consider the bidding:

a) 1M - DBL - ?
1m - DBL - ?

Can your redouble show on both of these auctions include trump support, if so, how many. If on a) you redbl with 4+ trumps, how do you show that.

Is 1x-DBL-1y forcing?
is 1x-DBL-2y (non jump) forcing?
what do you play 1x-dbl-jump shift?
What do you play 1x-dbl-double jump shift?
what do you play 1m-dbl-2NT?
what do you play 1M-dbl-2NT?

Compare these two auctions and tell me what you think you might hold for this bid.

1M-(X)-P-(2m)-P-(P)-DBL
1M-(X)-XX-(2m)-P-(P)-DBL

Ben

[flytoox]

Quote

Flytoox suggested in another thread that...the response after pd open and RHO dbl when you hold a strong hand is a good topic for discussion..

http://forums.bridgebase.com/in...msg6911#msg6911

So consider the bidding:

a) 1M - DBL - ?
1m - DBL - ?

Can your redouble show on both of these auctions include trump support, if so, how many. If on a) you redbl with 4+ trumps, how do you show that.

Is 1x-DBL-1y forcing?

yes
is 1x-DBL-2y (non jump) forcing?
no,
what do you play 1x-dbl-jump shift?
weak
What do you play 1x-dbl-double jump shift?
splinter
what do you play 1m-dbl-2NT?
limit raise or better, but deny 4 card major
what do you play 1M-dbl-2NT?
Jordan if agreed.
Compare these two auctions and tell me what you think you might hold for this bid.

1M-(X)-P-(2m)-P-(P)-DBL
should be balance,
1M-(X)-XX-(2m)-P-(P)-DBL
penalty
Ben

[inquiry]

I think flytoox answers are probably what might be called mainstream guidelines. But, having said that, the system I play in established partnerships is quite different from his replies. Below is my favorite way to play this. Hopefully, with his and mine anwers, we can get a discussion of the advantages/disadvantages, as well as other ideas. Like RDBL to show transfer to next higher suit, etc. Here is what I play.

Is 1x-DBL-1y forcing? My answer is yes

is 1x-DBL-2y (non jump) forcing? My answer is yes. 2y without a jump is forcing and IS A TRANSFER TO THE NEXT HIGHER SUIT. Thus, 1H-x-2D is a heart raise (a good heart raise or better, with 1H-x-2H promising nothing more than 13 cards, some of which are hearts). Two exta caveats on this auction. The 2y bid DENIES x support (unless it is the suit just below x) OR... if I show support later, then the 2y bid was a lead director. I use this also on 1D-x-2C shows a good diamond raise. As a note, I play 1x-DBL-1NT no matter what suit 1x was as a transfer to 2C.

What do you play 1x-DBL-jump shift as? I play it as a fit jump, showing the bid suit, and support for partners suit. I play 1x-DBL-double jump shift as the same kind of hand, just more values.

1M-DBL-2NT = I play jordanesque, that is, as limit raise or BETTER. I add the caveat or better to take all the pressure of redouble, so that my REDOUBLE implies no fit (an exception would be that I could have 3 small card support with a monster balanced hand. Over 1m-DBL, a redouble can have as many as four card support.

The last two auctions, I agree with flytoox answers, after the rdbl, the second double is penalty. After the initial pass, then double, this should show 10+ points, balanced hand, and optional double.

With the transfer bid, especially over the minor-DBL, I have separated the meaning of the a variety of raises. Here is my favorite structure...

1D-DBL
2C = fair Diamond raise or better (unlimited), no rebid promised
2D = generally 4 card support about all i can do
3D = 5 to 8 hcp, five card plus support
2NT = really weak, preemptive diamond raise

1C-DBL
1NT = fair club raise or better (unlimited) doesn't promise rebid
2C = gnereally 4 card support, about all I can do
3C = 5 to 8 hcp, 5+ support
2NT = really weak, preemptive club raise.

I am much more likely to pull out the redouble with a "fit" after 1m than after 1M. 2NT is not needed with limit raise, just plan to bid again after the transfer.

[luke warm]

1x-dbl-1y forcing

1x-dbl-2y (non-jump) forcing, not a transfer, can be lead directing

1x-dbl-jump shift depends.. say 1c-x, now 2d and 2h are reverse flannery.. if 1d-x, 2h and 2s are the same.. .2s would be preemptive after 1c

1x-dbl-double j/s would be fit jump, lead directing

1M-dbl-2nt is limit+, 3 or more trumps... i'd rather have 4, and would normally, so if only 3 i'd not have a hand suitable for a fit jump... it's much easier if ops overcall, then there's a cue available to show 3 card support and 4+

1y-x-p-any-p-p-x is takeout

1y-x-xx-2 any-p-p-x is penalty... if you can't make a penalty dbl here, you gots to bid.. if you can't do either, you shouldn't have xx'd.. imo

[paulg]

I think Ben's answers are probably the emerging standard in the UK. Fit jumps are very popular here, due to Robson/Segal, and transfers after 1M-(Dbl) are becoming more widespread.

Transfers after 1m-(Dbl)- are unheard of.

In terms of the continuations I've always prefer all doubles to be takeout, so

1y-x-p-any-p-p-x is takeout

1y-x-xx-2 any-p-p-x is takeout too. Note that opener needs to make a takeout double to protect the redoubler.

[inquiry]

Quote

Fit jumps are very popular here, due to Robson/Segal, and transfers after 1M-(Dbl) are becoming more widespread.

Transfers after 1m-(Dbl)- are unheard of.

Unheard of may be a bit strong immediately after mentioning Robson/Segal, since they suggest the transfer structure in their excellent book (as an option).

Ben

[mishovnbg]

Hi Ben!
Some of expert pairs play after dbl minor raise to 2 as strong hand with shortness in opening suit. Reason is bitter experience, after going down on 3-1 fit with rdb in vul ;D. As you know I also play RDBL as strong hand with missfit . But you really need at least one bid for strong hands without fit and short in opener minor suit...
My opinion is to hold "System on" as long as it is possible. So all bids remain same, RDBL or Pass and dbl later optional only if you like it! I no need to change system after dbl, because as you know I play with transfers without dbl too .
Misho

[inquiry]

Quote

Hi Ben!
Some of expert pairs play after dbl minor raise to 2 as strong hand with shortness in opening suit. Reason is bitter experience, after going down on 3-1 fit with rdb in vul ;D. As you know I also play RDBL as strong hand with missfit . But you really need at least one bid for strong hands without fit and short in opener minor suit...
My opinion is to hold "System on" as long as it is possible. So all bids remain same, RDBL or Pass and dbl later optional only if you like it! I no need to change system after dbl, because as you know I play with transfers without dbl too .
Misho

Hi Misho, I am beginning to more and more like transfer advances. Here is something i got from ETM victory... for when I play weak NT. I use a heavy raise to 2m over double. So 1m-x-2m or 1m-1y-2m can be quite good. Now if they bid again, and partner had the standard 1NT opening other people use, you can collect some nice penalty doubles (after fit found, dbl is at least cooperative).

But this doesn't work as well with strong notrumps.

Ben

[JRG]

Just a little aside:

My partnerships play:

1M - Dbl - 2NT as limit raise (or better) just as suggested.

However, we REVERSE the accepted meanings of

1m - Dbl - 2NT and 1m - Dbl - 3m

The former is a preemptive raise to 3m and the latter is the limit raise (or better). Yes, 2NT may not be quite as preemptive as 3m; however, whenever partner has a hand that can bid 3NT opposite a limit raise, we get to play it from the right side.

Funny, 1m - Dbl - 3m sounds like an old-fashioned limit raise!