[pbleighton]

I play 3S in the above sequence as either "just competing", with 6+ spades (LOTT), or it may have invitational strength with 5+ spades.

This leaves partner no way to know if I am inviting or not, and we play that we are not. Usually this is right.

Is this method correct? Is there a better way?

Peter

[easy]

you are in luck. The bridge gurus have already solved this problem. The convention you need is called MAXIMAL DOUBLES. In brief when the opponents are competing in the suit directly beneath yours x by you is a game try and 3 of your suit is competitive.

1d 2c 2d 3c 1s 2h 2s 3h 1s 2c 2s 3c
x = game try x = game try x = penalty
3d/3h = game try

1h 2c 2h 3c
x = penalty
3d = game try ......but does not necessarily a game try in diamonds just a general game try.

An excellent description of this convention can be found in Root and Pavlicek's book "modern bridge conventions". In fact the book contains very good detailed descriptions of the most commonly played conventions in North American tournaments.

[inquiry]

Fred is correct. These maximal doubles (also called game try doubles) exist when no room exist to explore game and are very useful.

Another similar addition, is the loney cue-bid, when no room is left in competitive or non-competitive auction.

Assume for a minute you are playing splinter bids... the bidding goes...

1H-4C (4C = splinter)
4D

How do you play 4D. Many play it as "cue-bid". If there is no room left, as in this example, it might be better used as a general slam try... the loney cue-bid.

Here is a similar auction using Bergen Raises
1S-3D (3D = bergen raise)
3H

What is three hearts? Cleary a game try, I play this as loney cue-cue bid again. Partner either tries to sign off with 3S, or cue-bids cheapest control if would accept a game try. If opener meant this as game try, he passes 3S and bids game over any other. If it was a slam try, then it was a real cue-bid, and opener will show his intention with his next bid.

Maximal doubles fill the role of this loney cue-bid when there is no room left below 3 of the suit and some enlightened people (very few however) use these doubles at the four level as a mild slam try, simiilar to the lonely cue bid.

Ben

[pbleighton]

Thanks Ben and Fred. Along the same lines:

1S-2D-2S-3D-?

If I understand, a maximal double wouldn't apply here, and a double would be for penalty. In that case, is 3H a specific heart-related game try, or is it general - any distribution, invitational stength. If it is specific, and hearts aren't appropriate, do you just bid 3S (or 4S, if you feel lucky)?

Peter

[inquiry]

Quote

Thanks Ben and Fred. Along the same lines:

1S-2D-2S-3D-?

If I understand, a maximal double wouldn't apply here, and a double would be for penalty. In that case, is 3H a specific heart-related game try, or is it general - any distribution, invitational stength. If it is specific, and hearts aren't appropriate, do you just bid 3S (or 4S, if you feel lucky)?

For me, 3H would be a either
a) general game try, saying absolutely nothing about hearts.
A heart cue-bid and slam try.

I expect partner to bid 3S with a minimum, and cue-bid cheapest first or second round control with maximum. If I am going to FORCE to game (and not simply bid it), then 3H was a slam try. With slam try, over 3S by partner i will either simply bid game, or try another slam-try cue-bid if I can still envision slam opposite a minimum 2S bid. If over cheapest cue-bid by partner, I bid 4S, then I was just trying for game, if I bid something else, I have a slam try hand which converts the 3H bid from lonely cue-bid game try to first/second round cue-bid slam try.

Ben

[luis]

Just a side note:

Invitational bids that are forcing can be used as either inviting to game or slam. If you plan to play game when pd supports and you have slam interest you can make a game-try and then go on if pd accepts or sign off in game if pd declines.
I find this very useful.

Luis

[EricK]

Quote

Thanks Ben and Fred. Along the same lines:

1S-2D-2S-3D-?

If I understand, a maximal double wouldn't apply here, and a double would be for penalty. In that case, is 3H a specific heart-related game try, or is it general - any distribution, invitational stength. If it is specific, and hearts aren't appropriate, do you just bid 3S (or 4S, if you feel lucky)?

Peter

Most people who play maximal doubles would treat double as penalty and 3H as a non-specific game try.

There is a good case for making 3H a help-suit game try in Hearts and double as a help-suit game try in Clubs.

Of course, if the bidding goes 1S (2C) 2S (3C), you can now play double as penalty (unless you can think of another meaning for it eg balanced game try, or game invitiational with weak trumps or whatever takes your fancy)

The point is that if they are bidding sensibly you rarely have a penalty double (there will likely be at least 17 total trumps).

Eric