[ducky_rh]

I know this is all third hand, BUT today it came to my attention that a pair that I know very well was accused of cheating in a tournament...I understand the director was called, and blacklisting was threatened, and it was announced to the entire tournament that this pair was cheating.

I know that these people are the last people on this planet that would ever cheat! It happens that they play together almost constantly, and play very well together. Perhaps their accuser mistook their skill, and possibly some good luck, for cheating.

My question is: what will happen to this pair? And what will restore their good name to those in the tournament who were notified of their "cheating"?

I'm sure there is plenty of cheating in BBO and elsewhere in the internet bridge world, becasue it is almost impossible to police. But these people, I KNOW, would not cheat. How does one deal with such false accusations?

Thank you.

[uday]

You're defending, third hand, someone allegedly accused of cheating publicly by someone else in an environment where you're already sure there is lots of cheating?


This is an ineffective mechanism of bringing this to the attention of our abuse dept. It is possible that you would have to work very hard to find a less appropriate mechanism.

Threads like this achieve nothing . There is only one way to achive a constructive outcome: an email to abuse@.

Wild, baseless, undeniable, unverifiable, public accusations of misbehaviour and cheating damage us, and I trust that that is not anyone's intent



To answer your questions

1. send an email to abuse@

2. send an email to abuse@

3. send an email to abuse@

[Brandal]

uday, on Nov 6 2005, 02:07 PM, said:

You're defending, third hand, someone allegedly accused of cheating publicly by someone else in an environment where you're already sure there is lots of cheating?


This is an ineffective mechanism of bringing this to the attention of our abuse dept. It is possible that you would have to work very hard to find a less appropriate mechanism.

Threads like this achieve nothing . There is only one way to achive a constructive outcome: an email to abuse@.

Wild, baseless, undeniable, unverifiable, public accusations of misbehaviour and cheating damage us, and I trust that that is not anyone's intent



To answer your questions

1. send an email to abuse@

2. send an email to abuse@

3. send an email to abuse@

I agree this is not the proper way to handle this.

However I was kibitzing this pair,since they are good friends
of me too,and there was indeed accusations of foul play based
on one single board.

Thank goodness kibitzing was allowed

That way at least I could calm my friends after the ordeal,
they were very upset.

[uday]

An email to abuse@ will help make sure they don't run into this again (or at least, as frequently).

[bearmum]

ducky_rh, on Nov 7 2005, 07:45 AM, said:

I know this is all third hand, BUT today it came to my attention that a pair that I know very well was accused of cheating in a tournament...I understand the director was called, and blacklisting was threatened, and it was announced to the entire tournament that this pair was cheating.

I know that these people are the last people on this planet that would ever cheat!  It happens that they play together almost constantly, and play very well together.  Perhaps their accuser mistook their skill, and possibly some good luck, for cheating.

My question is: what will happen to this pair? And what will restore their good name to those in the tournament who were notified of their "cheating"?

I'm sure there is plenty of cheating in BBO and elsewhere in the internet bridge world, becasue it is almost impossible to police.  But these people, I KNOW, would not cheat.  How does one deal with such false accusations?

Thank you.

IF it's THIRD hand please don't even post it here


The 'best friends' of ANY criminal always say "he/she was the 'put your own nicest adjective' person I have ever known" so I find the fact that you "KNOW" that "these people are the last people on this planet that would ever cheat!" is a totally subjective valuatation ( WHICH I hasten to add may very well be right -- who the h*** knows?)

IF you REALLY suspect (after playing a LOT of boards against ONE pair) where they trully seem to have had a remarkable run of success against the odds -- PLEASE report them to the relevant authority (HERE in BBO is abuse@u know where) BUT please DO NOT make accusations in the public domain

[ducky_rh]

Obviously people have reacted to my message without reading it first.

There are no allegations. (at least not by me)

The point is that these peoples' names were broadcast about to all participants of a large tournament as "cheaters", and a false accusation was leveled against them with the tournament director, and presumably to BBO, or at least, that was what was threatened.

And the question was (and still IS, because the point was completely missed by all but one, who in fact supported my decsription of what happened):

What can be done to restore there peoples' GOOD NAME amongst BBO players?

Now, if THIS forum is NOT the place to ask such questions, then please tell me, where IS that place? abuse@?? where everything takes place in secret, and no outcomes are ever announced? HARDLY.

[helene_t]

I think you asked a reasonable question and you already got an answer: email abuse.

FWIW, allthough I can imagine your friends are upset (I would be as well), I don't think it will be necesary to do anything to restore there good names. After a few days, everyone except for the players/TDs directly involved will have forgotten, I think.

[hrothgar]

ducky_rh, on Nov 7 2005, 03:08 PM, said:

What can be done to restore there peoples' GOOD NAME amongst BBO players?

I doubt that BBO players as a whole know, much less care, about this cheating allegation.

In my experience, cheating allegations often reflect back on the accuser. If your friends are the paragons of virtue that you claim, the main effect of the cheating allegation will be to destroy the credibility of the accuser.

Personally, I wouldn't worry about it much.

[Echognome]

I wouldn't worry either, as if they are still playing after such an incident, then by inference, BBO has found them innocent.

I certainly would email abuse and let them know if someone ever accused me of cheating. I can imagine that a false accusation is a serious offense.

[inquiry]

My understanding of the BBO rules are:

1) A tourney director can cast out any pair they think are cheating
2) Can ban anyone from playing in their tourneys in the future
3) Can (if they desire) tell the pair privately that he/she thinks they are cheating
4) Can report suspected cheaters to abuse (as can any player/kibitzer)

However, no one is allowed to make public accusations of cheating. You can not sit in the lobby and announce to the world that play "xxxx" is cheating. You can not tell a table full of kibitzers that "xxxx" is a notrious cheater. And as a player or director you can not announce to the entire tournment that player "xxxx" is a cheater. So in this case, the pair publically accused can report the case to abuse. A couple of issues, the Director will be sanctioned in this case (I believe), but he players reporting it will be investigated. Note, even if they are found to have been cheating, the director will still be issued at least a warning (it is inappropriate to make such allegations publically). Of course, the cheating pair will then be suspended or banned from the site. So if they were cheating, it is probably in their best interest not to complain (if the TD reports them, they will be investigated anyway).

As for starting a private webpage to list cheaters. I think this is not a particularily good idea, for a lot of reasons. Some uday listed.

Ben

[uday]

Quote

THIS forum is NOT the place to ask such questions, then please tell me, where IS that place? abuse@?? where everything takes place in secret, and no outcomes are ever announced? HARDLY.

Discussions belong here. Rants or whatever you please on rec.games.bridge, as do all forms of rabble-rousing. Refusing to go to abuse@ is like refusing to go to the police bec. they don't do seem to "do anything." Maybe they don't, but the alternatives are always worse.

summary of why abuse@ does not publish its cases

- feels wrong to uday
- lawsuits and expenses associated with lawsuits
- damage to reputations
- lessens the chance that a perp will redeem himself later



Abuse@ isnt perfect. But our collective real world justice systems also suck, and we're somewhat underfunded, undertrained and inexperienced by comparision.

[Al_U_Card]

uday, on Nov 7 2005, 10:30 AM, said:

Abuse@ isnt perfect. But our collective real world justice systems also suck, and we're somewhat underfunded, undertrained and inexperienced by comparision.

Continue to do what you feel is right, because IMO it is......

[pigpenz]

I think that the person who publicly broadcast the names of the pair should be banned for awhile, isnt that against the acceptable use policy

[inquiry]

pigpenz, on Nov 7 2005, 01:16 PM, said:

I think that the person who publicly broadcast the names of the pair should be banned for awhile, isnt that against the acceptable use policy

It is against the site policies, as I pointed out earlier in my initial reply. A couple of problems. If no one reports it to abuse, there is nothing we can do. We don't know who accused who of cheating, or when.

We try to put a stop to abuse when we know about it. When abuse happens, if no one reports it, nothing will happen.

As far a banning the person saying this, I am not sure if banning (suspending) or warning, or removing tournement rights, or what else might be appropriate. That is abuse's call, after investigating and weighing the evidence and past history of the person/people involved.

[ducky_rh]

Thank you. The many further responses are reasonable and heartening. It is not my place as a third-hand commentator to report anything to anyone (those directly involved may do so), but it is my place to defend my friends, and that was my intent, as well as to find out what BBO policy towards false public accusations might be.

I deliberately did not mention any names, but those involved may now make whatever judgements about their own behavior, and standing in BBO, that they deem appropriate. Again, thank you.

[luke warm]

ducky, i'd be every bit as upset as you if i was kibbing ben and hannie and the same thing happened to them... if their names were somehow pubicly assiciated with cheating, i'd be enraged (but not nearly as much as they would be)

all who used public chat in this matter should be turned over to abuse, period.. that was totally unacceptable imo...