[hallway]

yes, I know this subject has been aired before. BUT I see the BBF membership has risen to 760 > so some of the newcomers may not be fully aware of what is seemly and what is not.

I accept all Undo requests as a matter of course.

However, of late a number of these (there have indeed been several) have been to alter the play of the cards - not cricket folks :'( It's hard enough for me to win a trick as it is without having it taken off me and the cards then played so it 'bites the dust' ???

Q to Dummy's 2 of a five card suit
Yes ;D my King reigns supreme 8)
Undo
Q to Dummy's Ace
:'( poor chap he's going to get roughed up :'(

IMO undos should only be requested to remedy genuine misclicks (not even used to repair the ravages of wayward mice )

[JRG]

Quote

yes, I know this subject has been aired before. BUT I see the BBF membership has risen to 760 > so some of the newcomers may not be fully aware of what is seemly and what is not.

I accept all Undo requests as a matter of course.

However, of late a number of these (there have indeed been several) have been to alter the play of the cards - not cricket folks :'( It's hard enough for me to win a trick as it is without having it taken off me and the cards then played so it 'bites the dust' ???

Q to Dummy's 2 of a five card suit
Yes ;D my King reigns supreme 8)
Undo
Q to Dummy's Ace
:'( poor chap he's going to get roughed up :'(

IMO undos should only be requested to remedy genuine misclicks (not even used to repair the ravages of wayward mice :D)

Sort of a variation on the Alcatraz Coup!

[Polly]

I turn down all undoes after an additional card has been played - and have been chastised as "but it is only a game". My rule - no card played - undo allowed every time. I wish the undo button became inactive after next bid is made or or next card is played

my 2 cents
Polly

[Free]

I only accept undos if it doesn't harm me.

If they bid something (not pass) and then ask to undo I normally don't accept (because they describe their hands twice then), but if they pass and ask for an undo I might consider it.
When playing it can be a big difference, because then everybody knows a certain card, so ops can find some defense which is very hard to find. If they play a card, I don't accept undos. If you're playing in real life at a table, ops don't accept an undo either. You have time enough to think which card you want to play, and time enough to check if you're clicking on the right card...

[Cascade]

Hi Maureen

I am pretty generous accepting undoes but I always retain the right to not accept.

If in doubt ask privately why the player wants an undo.

my 2c

Wayne

[mycroft]

Interesting. I accept all undoes as a matter of course, unless it's *obvious* that too much information has passed afterwards (and I usually pass a private note as to why I denied it when I do).

Somebody who tried the two-way Q finesse both ways on an undo would get a quick trip to "club" and lobbyland, immediately after the hand - if it were not my table, I would apologize to partner and leave myself.

I have frequently allowed undoes of bids, and especially passes, doubles and redoubles; many is the time I have clicked to gain focus or to remove a chat window and found myself with a unscheduled pass. And if it's a bid - well, we'll let it go this time. Let's see what's going on. It might have been something innocuous like 1H, no sorry, 1S; relatively innocuous like 1H, sorry 2H; could be a "oops, too much multi" 2D, sorry 2H; and it could be something ugly. If it gets to be too much, I'll start denying them; if they get upset about it, I'll apologize and find another table.

OTOH, I tend to play most of my games against people I know well and trust; that makes granting undoes, even in dangerous situations, pretty safe. I'll lose imps against them, but I'm not in the national finals, am I?

Tournaments - all bets are off. If I make a misclick, I eat it, and apologize to partner. If the opps do, I happily and with no guilt take my reward. That seems to be the prevailing interpretation, and I'll play to it.

Michael.

[JRG]

An aside first: I generally have a slow connection. I've made a misclick and by the time I've got in the "Undo" request, the next person has played or bid. So, I'm not sure if that is a good criterion for allowing/not allowing an Undo. I don't ask for an Undo myself if it is one of my stupid "play or bid too fast" moves, even if I realize it right away and before anyone has done anything.

==============

My particular philosophy is to allow Undos in general. I'm not playing tournament bridge and if people want to cheat against me, I let them. On the other hand, if I'm fairly sure cheating is going on, I don't play against them again. If it is bad enough, I curtail the game as quickly as I can do so politely.

Like Michael, I prefer to play against people I think I've got to know and trust (I like to kibitz a lot). Accordingly, I think I have only played twice where I thought the opponents were cheating (and once when I was kibitzing, I thought someone was cheating -- but not that person's partner!!!).

If an Undo is going to ruin the hand, I generally refuse the Undo and then ask for a Redeal -- yes, that means opponents may not get a bad board that was coming their way, but what the hell, I play to enjoy myself.

I don't think I've ever refused declarer an Undo (I have a funny habit, which I should probably work hard to eliminate -- if declarer makes a play that appears to be an obvious brain fault (e.g. only one spot card out and declarer plays small instead of an honour), I wait a few extra seconds -- gives him or her a chance to notice the "misclick" and request an Undo.

[inquiry]

I ALWAYS allow undo's. It is that simple. The assumption I am working under is that an undo is the result of an inadvertant click. Now, it sometimes comes to my attention that this was not the case. Some bidding something like 2C, asking and undo, and then jumps to 4S, or issues a double. To bid 2C requires two clicks, so changing that to 4S or dbl is wrong. Or someone who ask an undo and then leads an entirely different suit, and a card that can't be next to the one accidently clicked.

A few of these from an opponent, and then, I continue to allow undo's, I simply will not play with that opponent. I also virtually always allow redeals. I know of only one exception. An opponent left the table mid hand. A new opponent joined. He asked for redeal (I usually do so in that situtation myself). However, I could claim all but two tricks, so I rejected the undo, and made the claim so he could see the cards. That is, I didn't force him to have to play without a clue as to what went before.

As far as the rules go, always allow undo's, never allow undo's, or make individual judgements.. they are all fine. I will tell a story, however. One day a player with a name like no_undos (don't remember the exact name), and with text in his profile that rempeat the information that he doesn't allow undo;s joined the table... A few hands in, HE ASKED for an undo. LOL... well, I made a comment about it, with a smilley face to point out the irony, but as per my general rule, I allowed the undo (as did my partner without comment). However, perhpas my comment was too much because he left the table (after the undo was accepted btw).

Ben

[mishovnbg]

I give undo all time, even at tournaments . In my opinion I am good enough to beat oops without using no Bridge mistakes ;D.
Misho

[bearmum]

I assume you are all talking about "undo" of card ??? rather than "undo" of miscliked bid??

IF so I do NOT agree with undo - let's make it as CLOSE ot ftf bridge as possible - you CAN'T undo play in ftf (unless you catch a revoke before it's established)

[Codo]

No, we don´t, bearmum.

1. It is quite easy to make a wrong play unintationally at bbo. Why should we penalisze our opps for this small mistake?

2. Why do I play bridge at bbo? I play to have fun, to learn something about this game and to improve.
If I refuse an undo, this does not match to my goals at all.
I won`t learn more and I won`t have more fun. So why should I refuse?

If there is a tournement for high stakes, if I represent my country/city/Club in a big contest, I will change my mind and win in any legal way.
But there is absolutely no reason for me to refuse undos while playing just bridge.

Kind Regards

Roland

[inquiry]

I agree with Roland. To blanket reject all undo's can't be right in this environment. Stick mouse, cause problems. Another one is when you type in chat box, maybe even explaining bid to opponents, you occassionally "click" back on the active window and inadvertently click a card. Even worse is the "double click" where you click a card to play, and if that wins the tricks, accidently click the card underneath it to the next trick.

The rules of the site (if you haven't read them yet, are available as the first text in the bridge library), state that it is only proper to ask for undo's "when you have made a misclick. If you made a poor bid or play or for any other reason, it is inappropriate to ask for an undo."

My working assumption is that when someone ask for an undo, the reason is a misclick. Therefore, I tend to allow ALL undo's.

Ben

[flytoox]

I am completely on Misho, ben and Roland's side. I allow all undos. Bridge is supposed to be a friendly game. We play on BBO not for money. Just as Misho said, anyone who need to utilize undos cannt be good rivals:)

[paulg]

Although I never question or refuse an undo, personally I never ask for them and configure team matches so that they are not available.

This is not an attempt to prevent enjoyment, which is the "Prime Directive", but I believe that mechanical mistakes are part of the normal game and misclicks are the online equivalent.

Although this may seem harsh, I would point out that all my BBO bridge is (appears :-) ) to be played against advanced or better players who, by definition, should be experienced duplicate combatants.

Paul

[hotShot]

Well missclicks happen.

So i usually allow undo's.

But if someone needs undo's too often or to optimize the result, i loose interest in playing with that person.

For myself i try to avoid undos, even when i missclick. I prefer a bad score at the board, to an undo.

hotShot

[jjsb]

everything is said about that , just to add my point wish is same than what i have read from some of u. i accept ALL undo even if it's coming after long time .Now if i notice that this undoes is ask as a kind of cheat to find a queen when can take it from both sides for exemple (that never happened) well , i'll know then what to do ... but we are entering in a totally different topic

regards

[bhugi]

I also allow undos, because misclick problems arise in internet bridge.
We are playing for fun, so just let them undo and I use my skills to win them, but not winning them due to their misclick.

However, in a tourney, if one misclick and request for an undo, to have a fair game, it is a good code of practice to restrict yourself with lead penalty, major penalty card, minor penalty card, etc.

[bearmum]

I TOTALLY agree ;D

I figure that if you misclik you SHOULD take the consequences - AND I have MANY times when trying to find way around site >

Quote

Although I never question or refuse an undo, personally I never ask for them and configure team matches so that they are not available.

This is not an attempt to prevent enjoyment, which is the "Prime Directive", but I believe that mechanical mistakes are part of the normal game and misclicks are the online equivalent.

Although this may seem harsh, I would point out that all my BBO bridge is (appears :-) ) to be played against advanced or better players who, by definition, should be experienced duplicate combatants.

Paul