[ArcLight]

Scoring: IMP

---

North opens 1 Diamond.

How should this be bid?

Spoiler

(We didn't reach slam, most did, and made it)

[mike777]

1d=1s
2d=3c
3nt=p seems ok...if not playing strong jump shifts.

I do not try for slam because of misfits and my partners do not open sound.

[Mr. Dodgy]

i play SJS, so:

1♦-2♠-3♦-3NT

[HeartA]

Jlall, on Oct 28 2005, 09:43 PM, said:

I like the above auction.

Which auction?

I would suggest:
1D - 1S
2D - 3C
3N - 4N
ppp

I wouldn't pass 3N holding South's hand.

[luke warm]

1h : 1nt
2d : 2s
3d : 4h

if i have to open 1d first, 3nt would be reached probably.. 4h should make anything from 10 to 12 tricks, depending on the lead

[ArcLight]

I was South, after pard rebid his ♦, I figured:
* he was showing a minimum, so it was unlikely we had 33 HCP for slam
* in the absence of HCP, we probably didn't have a fitting long suit we could run for extra tricks
* with a pick up pard, I was concerned that we would have a bididng disaster at a high level, where he mistook a cue bid for a suit and we ended up in a 4-2 fit at the 4 level.

1♦ - 1♠
2♦ - I bid 3NT with the 2 tenaces to protect (♥ and ♠). I wanted to bid 3♣ but was concerned we might have a problem.

Result: 3NT making 6


Most others ended up in 6NT. We got a bad score in IMPS (losing 7 IMPS)

With a regular partner I may have considered exploring for a slam, but with a pick up pard, I was afraid we'd get stuck in some bad contarct, going down 1.


I accept the blame, I was just wondering if my reasoning was faulty.


As for Strong Jump Shifts, with the Mike Lawrence 2/1 system there are 3 types, definately not worth trying them without discussion! Also, since this was a SAYC pick up pard, if I bid 2 Spades, did I really have a strong enough spade suit?

[G_R__E_G]

You've got some awfully good players all signing off below slam, so I don't think you should feel too bad about it. To me the north hand is on the border between rebidding 2♦ and 3♦. If my partner rebid 2♦ like yours did I probably would have signed off in 3nt too. If they'd rebid 3♦ - then I'd get excited.

[paulg]

In order to make 6NT you need the diamonds to play for 5 tricks, which is about 45% chance.

So missing the slam is the right thing to do in the long run - I'd probably be in 4NT too.

Paul

[Fluffy]

I can see 2 possible auctions:

1♦-1♠
2♦-3♣
3♥-4NT
pass


And

1♦-1♠
2♦-2♥
3♥-4♣
4♦-4♠
4NT-5♦
6♦-6♥

[awm]

A lot of inexperienced players have a tendency to get all excited when they hold a strong hand (say 16+ points) opposite an opening, and refuse to stop short of slam. So on a pair of hands like these, you have to expect that a lot of the field is going to be in slam because south will simply not stop bidding until you get there.

This general approach (going berserk with 16+ points opposite an opening) is not always best, and you've done well to avoid it here. With the misfit hands, you're not really odds-on for slam, and you judged correctly to stay out. Unfortunately, the lie of the cards was lucky for the slam bidders... and there will be a lot of them, so you get a bad score. But in the long run you will tend to outscore the people who automatically bid slam on hands like these... so good bidding. Unfortunately it's possible to bid well, avoid a bad contract, and still get a poor result when the bad contract comes home. This is why good players (sometimes) lose at bridge.

[barmar]

I agree with all the people who said this is not a SJS hand. You should avoid SJS with a two-suiter, unless the second suit is support for opener. The jump takes up too much room, you may not be able to show your second suit below the 4 level. And with a hand like this, you do want to show all your assets -- you want to be able to explore for a ♣ slam. So bid slowly, remembering that new suits by an unpassed responder are always forcing. You would be very happy to hear the auction go 1♦-1♠-2♣ or 1♦-1♠-2♦-3♣-4♣.

The theory behind Soloway SJS is that the denomination is usually set by opener's or responder's second bid. Note that in the 2nd auction above, ♣ agreement doesn't show up until the third round. After a SJS, opener should not bid a second suit unless it's a 5-card suit, since he shouldn't expect responder to have 4 of them.

[cherdano]

I think I am one of these inexperienced players Adam is alluding to

My auction would start the same as Mike's: 1♦-1♠-2♦-3♣-3NT. However, I would not give up with responder's hand yet. Yes, it is a misfit, but I still have a very nice looking 18-count, and partner's range for 1♦-2♦ is still a bit wide-ranging. I would give it one further push with 4♥, patterning out, fully expecting to play in 4Nt.

The auction would then continue (I hope) 4♥-5♥-6♥.

Arend

[barmar]

I'm not sure I'd want to play in slam on a Moysian and misfits in all the side suits. You need to ruff at least one ♦, and the only transportation back to your hand afterward is to ruff a black card, shortening yourself.

[keylime]

Lotta points but no fit.

1♦-1♠
2♦-3♣
3NT-4NT

At this point, my fragments aren't looking that good - would need pard to have the right cards to make six NT. Furthermore I'm not going to put my pard under the gun. Swish.

[Chamaco]

keylime, on Nov 8 2005, 04:41 PM, said:

Lotta points but no fit.

1♦-1♠
2♦-3♣
3NT-4NT

At this point, my fragments aren't looking that good - would need pard to have the right cards to make six NT. Furthermore I'm not going to put my pard under the gun. Swish.

I like this auction.

BTW, this auction seems like a good plug for Bourke Relay.

[joker_gib]

Chamaco, on Nov 9 2005, 09:32 AM, said:

keylime, on Nov 8 2005, 04:41 PM, said:

Lotta points but no fit.

1♦-1♠
2♦-3♣
3NT-4NT

At this point, my fragments aren't looking that good - would need pard to have the right cards to make six NT. Furthermore I'm not going to put my pard under the gun. Swish.

I like this auction.

Yes

Alain

[Robert]

Hello ArcLight

You made several excellent points. Sometimes the right decision ends up going wrong in bridge. Avoiding a poor slam 'sometimes' gets you a poor result.

Making the right bid does produce good results over the long term.

Jump shifting on misfitting two suiters is not a good idea.

Your handling of a first time partner was very good.

Do not rebid that spade suit. A good partner will show support, 'if' it is right(with three card support 'later in the auction' after not making a direct raise)

There was no reasonable 'blame' to accept for, you did nothing wrong. All of your decisions were correct.

Well done.

Regards,
Robert

[Gerben42]

Agree with Keylime's auction. Even if playing SJS (don't!) this hand does not qualify for that. Be happy to have missed slam, and feel unlucky that it was making.