[pigpenz]

auction:
2♠ pas 4♠ your call

imps nv vs nv

Scoring: IMP

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[Al_U_Card]

Jlall, on Oct 28 2005, 09:35 AM, said:

X...no second choice.

Will pard "pull" with a random 7 count, and if he bids 4NT how would you interpret that?

[tysen2k]

Not much else to do but double. Some experts have double in this case being "optional, suggesting takeout" but I think standard is "optional, suggesting penalty." You have to double here in either case. I'm not sure which method is superior.

[pclayton]

Of course you double with this. Pard's hand has the decision here.

[Double !]

Double !

UNLESS YOU ARE PLAYING WITH SOMEONE WHO CONTINUES TO ASCRIBE TO THE OBSOLETE METHOD of playing DOUBLE of 4 Spades = PENALTY, and 4NT is for TAKEOUT (not minors).

Somehow I get the feeling that someone doubled with this hand and this person's partner interpreted it as being for business.

TGIF

DHL

[P_Marlowe]

Dbl, wtp?

Make the hand weaker by an Ace
and it gets tougher.

You have enough defence to prevent
overtricks, if it makes, ... would not
be the first time.

Marlowe

[mikeh]

In today's game, I'd expect virtually all (I almost wrote 'all', but that is nearly impossible to attain) (real) experts to double, and to give no serious consideration to any other call.

As for partner, I agree with Justin. Partner will pull in an effort to make, or will otherwise pass.

Pulling to 4N shows 2 (or 3) places to play, pulling to a suit suggests that this is a long suit: at least 6 cards

Pulling to 5♠ and 5N: there should and would be a difference, but this is an area on which I would expect some difference. For me, if undiscussed, 5♠ would show 1st round control but otherwise the same slam-bound two suited hand that 5N would show. However, I can see other interpretations as reasonable.

[beatrix45]

Double !, on Oct 28 2005, 01:12 PM, said:

UNLESS YOU ARE PLAYING WITH SOMEONE WHO CONTINUES TO ASCRIBE TO THE OBSOLETE METHOD of playing DOUBLE of 4 Spades = PENALTY, and 4NT is for TAKEOUT (not minors).

Oh dear! Here I am playing an obsolete method and getting another top.

Let's see, the OLD method is useful to show the ideal TO double pattern: 1-4-4-4 or 0-4-4-5 or 0-4-5-4. It can also be used to show 4-6 in the red suits. For many hands, it can be used with four hearts and 5-3 or 3-5 in the minors. With lots of high cards, we might even have 4-3 or 3-4 in the minors.

The NEW method shows 5-6 or 6-5 in the minors. I can also be used with a red hand, 5-6 or 6-5 in hearts and diamonds.

Gee, I wonder which bid comes up the more often? I know! I will set up a simulation assuming a 4♠ bid shows an eight bagger or a 7-4 hand.

By golly! Distributions biddable under the OLD method come up four times as often as distributions biddable using the NEW method. I do need (usually), on average, about one more useful high card to bid safely using the OLD method, but I still ought to get to bid quite a bit more often. I paid my entry fee. I want to bid!

On the other hand, I do so want to be modern. I think I see the light! I will get ahead of this modernity curve and start passing at every opportunity when those rude opponents preempt the auction.

[MickyB]

The "new" method is not playing 4NT as both minors, but as two places to play (C+D/C+H/D+H).

Problem is, Beatrix - if you bid 4NT with a 1435, quite often neither game will make, and if pard had had the opportunity to pass your double you would have taken a nice penalty. IMO it is much better to put these pure takeout hands in with the flatter hands that are doubling - admittedly you are a bit nervous doubling on a 0(544) but it doesn't have to turn out badly!

[Fluffy]

Jlall, on Oct 28 2005, 02:35 PM, said:

X...no second choice.

Same for me