[cherdano]

I am wondering whether anyone would consider downgrading this to 1NT (15-17) opening:
♠852
♥AKQ
♦654
♣AKQ2

Arend

Oops, hand added.

[Walddk]

I would downgrade it to ZERO hcp. Where is the hand?

Roland

[Walddk]

No, I wouldn't downgrade it to 15-17. How often do you have 6 certain tricks when you open 1NT? Never. And furthermore, how often do you have 6 certain tricks when you open 1x and rebid 2NT over 1y? Almost never.

It's 18 to me, close between 18 and a good 18. I will downgrade it to 18 for two reasons.

1. Empty in 2 suits.
2. 3334.

I have nothing to be ashamed of if the auction goes

1♣ - 1♠
2NT

Roland

[Al_U_Card]

Looking at those 6 tricks and support for 2 other suits, I might just open 2NT....so i will upgrade the hand.....give pard his share of the outstanding and a 5 card major and game should come in np

[Walddk]

Jlall, on Oct 20 2005, 03:52 PM, said:

(this is the type of hand where balanced 26 HCP do not make game).

Are you sure?

Axx
xxx
Axx
xxxx

It's against the odds to make a move with that hand over 1NT (when can a 1NT opener produce 7 tricks?), and yet you have a 68% chance of making 3NT.

Roland

[Al_U_Card]

Jlall, on Oct 20 2005, 08:52 AM, said:

Yes I would downgrade it. I voted for "17" and my second choice was bad 17. AKQ tight is not a good holding, xxx's are not good, and 4333 is not good. If you think about hands that partner can have that won't produce game it's kind of shocking (this is the type of hand where balanced 26 HCP do not make game).

I agree with the above, on principle, but in this particular context these things can add up to some pretty good end results unless you open 1NT and pard passes with his 7 count. The 1C opener has the disadvantage of allowing opposition communication possibilities at the one level, but I can appreciate that it is the most "standard" approach.

[Al_U_Card]

Walddk, on Oct 20 2005, 08:58 AM, said:

Jlall, on Oct 20 2005, 03:52 PM, said:

(this is the type of hand where balanced 26 HCP do not make game).

Are you sure?

Axx
xxx
Axx
xxxx

It's against the odds to make a move with that hand over 1NT (when can a 1NT opener produce 7 tricks?), and yet you have a 68% chance of making 3NT.

Roland

If you open 1C and pard bids 1NT (see another post where a hand with 11 hcp gets "downgraded" to a 1NT response) do you respond 2 or 3NT?

[joker_gib]

No, I wouldn't downgrade cause I have 6 tricks and I prefer to open that with 1 of a minor.

This gives me the opportunity to locate problems in ♠ or ♦ if opps overcall.

Alain

[Walddk]

Al_U_Card, on Oct 20 2005, 04:02 PM, said:

If you open 1C and pard bids 1NT (see another post where a hand with 11 hcp gets "downgraded" to a 1NT response) do you respond 2 or 3NT?

2NT. It's an 18 count to me, so all I can do is invite.

Roland

[Al_U_Card]

Even if the 1NT response looks like it holds 4+ clubs, are there other 1 level responses by pard that might change your mind?

[Walddk]

Al_U_Card, on Oct 20 2005, 04:23 PM, said:

Even if the 1NT response looks like it holds 4+ clubs, are there other 1 level responses by pard that might change your mind?

1NT doesn't promise clubs the way I play it. It denies majors, yes, but not diamonds.

Roland

[Winstonm]

Seems to me you won't be missing much if you call this 17 - 4333 is an automatic downgrade to me.

Winston

[mike777]

Glad I can downgrade this to exactly 17 and show exactly 17 hcp and not 15-17 .

[han]

This should not come as a surprize to you Arend: I downgrade.

[mikeh]

I would downgrade to 17 at mps but not at imps. At imps, teammates rarely seen to appreciate downgrading especially of the result of the downgrade is lose 10.

I see all of the reasons for downgrading and they make sense, but imps is a bidder's game.

[G_R__E_G]

Good 17. I figure the danger of bidding a game we can't make if I bid it strongly outweigh the risks of missing a game we could make if I downgrade it. Of course it would depend on my mood at the time. If I'd been having a "charmed" evening...

[pclayton]

I only evaluate this as an 18 count of Vul at IMPs.

4333's suck and this is no exception.

By the way, Arend, did you get this out of last month's BW? This hand was in MSC, and you had to deal with 1♣ - (1♦) - dbl - (pass) - ?

[MickyB]

This is a sick hand. I'm almost tempted to open it in a minor in the hope that I won't have to bid NT first, but as that is unlikely I'm probably best off opening 1NT.