Help
4♠ is cold.
Questions:
Should W bid differently?
Should E bid differently?
Which are the weapons against bluffs in general?
Caren
How do you cope with a bluff? Would you find 4spades?
#1
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Posted 2005-October-13, 01:50
4♠ is cold.
Questions:
Should W bid differently?
Should E bid differently?
Which are the weapons against bluffs in general?
Caren
Those are my principles. If you don't like them I have others. (Groucho Marx)
#2 Guest_Jlall_*
Posted 2005-October-13, 07:19
The problems started with the 1S bid. In balancing seat, this bid is limited to about 15. With more you need to X. It often sucks when you have some offshape hands, but since your bottom range is so low in balancing seat, your upper range needs to adjust accordingly. Had west Xed planning to show a strong hand there wouldnt be much chance of avoiding game as it turns out.
edit: I'll leave this post up to show what happens when you are up too early in the morning
Sorry, I saw the 1S bid and assumed it was west lol.
edit: I'll leave this post up to show what happens when you are up too early in the morning
Sorry, I saw the 1S bid and assumed it was west lol.
This post has been edited by Jlall: 2005-October-13, 07:31
#3
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Posted 2005-October-13, 07:24
Justin,
West Xed ! It's north that bid 1♠ in the void !
Btw, I don't know if we will play 4♠ but we surely will play 4♥ when partner make the 2♥ free bid !
Alain
West Xed ! It's north that bid 1♠ in the void !
Btw, I don't know if we will play 4♠ but we surely will play 4♥ when partner make the 2♥ free bid !
Alain
Alain
#4
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Posted 2005-October-13, 07:25
yah, gotta have my coffee b4 looking at those tiny diagrams.....the free H bid says it all.....
The Grand Design, reflected in the face of Chaos...it's a fluke!
#5
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Posted 2005-October-13, 07:26
My understanding was that West DID double planning on showing a strong hand, and then North psyched the 1S bid.
Whether or not this psyche has been revealed or not I'm not sure. I think there's something to be said about South's passing 3C so quickly.....
Whether or not this psyche has been revealed or not I'm not sure. I think there's something to be said about South's passing 3C so quickly.....
#6 Guest_Jlall_*
Posted 2005-October-13, 07:31
rofl ok...my bad... missed that X.
OK in that case west should have just bid 4H after 3C p p. Partner made a free 2H bid so west can bid game. It also should be obvious after you Xed them and they ran that 1S was a psyche (it was obvious to south it seems).
In general when they psyche you have to pay them off from time to time. Sometimes their partners will bury them for you, and then you can X. Other times you will be able to X for penalty/cards and they will be smoked out when they run.
OK in that case west should have just bid 4H after 3C p p. Partner made a free 2H bid so west can bid game. It also should be obvious after you Xed them and they ran that 1S was a psyche (it was obvious to south it seems).
In general when they psyche you have to pay them off from time to time. Sometimes their partners will bury them for you, and then you can X. Other times you will be able to X for penalty/cards and they will be smoked out when they run.
#7
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Posted 2005-October-13, 07:38
Yeah, but 4H doesn't make, since it's played the wrong way up.
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Posted 2005-October-13, 07:48
mr1303, on Oct 13 2005, 03:38 PM, said:
Yeah, but 4H doesn't make, since it's played the wrong way up.
This will not be the first time that I bid a game that doesn't make !
Alain
Alain
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Posted 2005-October-13, 08:08
How is 4♠ cold?
If North didn't bid 1♠ then East would have been the declarer.
I see 2 Club losers (on a club lead), 1 Diamond, and a Spade.
You wont be able to pick up all of Souths Spades without finessing through them twice, and you have just one entry.
I think 4♠ is down 1.
If North didn't bid 1♠ then East would have been the declarer.
I see 2 Club losers (on a club lead), 1 Diamond, and a Spade.
You wont be able to pick up all of Souths Spades without finessing through them twice, and you have just one entry.
I think 4♠ is down 1.
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Posted 2005-October-13, 08:17
Assuming that north refuses to take the ♦K on the first round of the suit [else trivial], and wins the second round of the suit, any return he makes is going to give another entry to dummy.
Someone can probably explain why this doesn't work.
Someone can probably explain why this doesn't work.
#11 Guest_Jlall_*
Posted 2005-October-13, 08:21
Not sure why east would end up declaring spades. East would end up declaring hearts which does indeed go down on a club lead.
If spades is played then west would be declarer. North would not enjoy leading
If spades is played then west would be declarer. North would not enjoy leading
#12
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Posted 2005-October-13, 08:31
About the only "psyche-revealing" bid I can think of is when East can bid 2♠ naturally on his first turn, although I think this usually comes up when the psyche is by responder. You could also have the agreement that 2♠ by West is natural, but I think it's more appropriate to use it as a control cue bid in support of partner's ♥.
In this case I think you should be thanking North for muddying the auction. Without his interference, you would probably have landed in 4♥. Even if you discover the 5-3 ♠ fit, it's usually preferable to play in the 4-4 fit. The reasons this hand plays better in spades are difficult to determine during the auction, except that you may be able to tell that West's minor-suit kings need to be protected from being led through.
In this case I think you should be thanking North for muddying the auction. Without his interference, you would probably have landed in 4♥. Even if you discover the 5-3 ♠ fit, it's usually preferable to play in the 4-4 fit. The reasons this hand plays better in spades are difficult to determine during the auction, except that you may be able to tell that West's minor-suit kings need to be protected from being led through.
#13
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Posted 2005-October-13, 08:40
Let's really put the pressure on and have South bid 1s over 1 club opening and have north rebid 2clubs, pressure!
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Posted 2005-October-13, 09:28
joker_gib, on Oct 13 2005, 03:24 PM, said:
Btw, I don't know if we will play 4♠ but we surely will play 4♥ when partner make the 2♥ free bid!
Hmmmm.... I bid only 3♥ because ♣K was for the oven and you know it from the bidding. Imo
. Partner made just 3♥, the opps were not blind
We knew that 1♠ was a psyche but partner was not sure that I held 5 and I could not know that she had 3 (44 is easier, or?).
The argument for a 44 vs a 53 trump-fit does not really apply here because the former bidding (and therefore the question who is on lead -> you must protect 2 Kings) is very important. The main point in this hand is not to avoid losers by discarding on length. Imo
Caren
Those are my principles. If you don't like them I have others. (Groucho Marx)
#15 Guest_Jlall_*
Posted 2005-October-13, 09:35
42, on Oct 13 2005, 10:28 AM, said:
joker_gib, on Oct 13 2005, 03:24 PM, said:
Btw, I don't know if we will play 4♠ but we surely will play 4♥ when partner make the 2♥ free bid!
Hmmmm.... I bid only 3♥ because ♣K was for the oven and you know it from the bidding. Imo
. I agree, the CK is a bad card, but you don't know for sure where the ace or queen are, partner could have one of them. Even barring that, you still just needed to find the HQ to make a game, so it's not a bad proposition.
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Posted 2005-October-13, 10:12
Jlall, on Oct 13 2005, 05:35 PM, said:
42, on Oct 13 2005, 10:28 AM, said:
joker_gib, on Oct 13 2005, 03:24 PM, said:
Btw, I don't know if we will play 4♠ but we surely will play 4♥ when partner make the 2♥ free bid!
Hmmmm.... I bid only 3♥ because ♣K was for the oven and you know it from the bidding. Imo
. I agree, the CK is a bad card, but you don't know for sure where the ace or queen are, partner could have one of them. Even barring that, you still just needed to find the HQ to make a game, so it's not a bad proposition.
*hehe* Then it was female intuition which said that the cards were where they were
On the other hand I must have bid 4♠ then
But provided that N did not instantly bluff in 1. seat with the opening, and the free 2♥ bid by partner, wasn't it more likely that N held the "keycards" for this game?
Those are my principles. If you don't like them I have others. (Groucho Marx)
#17 Guest_Jlall_*
Posted 2005-October-13, 10:13
42, on Oct 13 2005, 11:12 AM, said:
But provided that N did not instantly bluff in 1. seat with the opening, and the free 2♥ bid by partner, wasn't it more likely that N held the "keycards" for this game?
yes for sure.
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Posted 2005-October-13, 10:26
whats amazing is that south still didnt bid 3♠
#19 Guest_Jlall_*
Posted 2005-October-13, 10:58
Not really...he is allowed to use his brain. They Xed pard for penalty in 2S, and he ran to 3C...hmmmm...not rocket science.
#20
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Posted 2005-October-13, 14:27
The problem is that the second dbl carries to few information about your distribution.
You could bid 2NT to show a strong hand with some hold in all suits and to protect your K's. This must promise very solid ♠ stopper.
You could bid 3♠ instead, if your partner could smell the psyche, she would know you hold 5 cards then. Again protecting your K's.
You are right, you should not push to game, if you are not playing, because your minor K's loose value, if your partner gets declarer.
You could bid 2NT to show a strong hand with some hold in all suits and to protect your K's. This must promise very solid ♠ stopper.
You could bid 3♠ instead, if your partner could smell the psyche, she would know you hold 5 cards then. Again protecting your K's.
You are right, you should not push to game, if you are not playing, because your minor K's loose value, if your partner gets declarer.
bidding:
1♣ pass pass dbl
1♠ 2♥ 2♠ dbl
3♣ pass pass 3♥
all pass