[hrothgar]

Fit jumps use up a far amount of space. Accordingly, I prefer that they are relatively descriptive. When I make a fit jump, I prefer to promise at least 2 of the top 4 honors in my suit. (QJxxx is not sufficient). I also prefer that the fit jump promise Qxxx or better in partner's suit

In the sacrifice and anti sacrifice thread, I was torn about the benefits of a 3♣ fit jump primarily based on the weak club suit. I'd feel a LOT better if I had the 10 of clubs...

[inquiry]

Robson/Segal PArtnership bidding book suggest that Axxxx is NOT A good suit to make a fit jump in. They prefer slow values, the QJxxx of KJxxx type holding. IF partner is short in your fit jump suit, then he knows you hold defense agaisnt their competitive (or potentially competitive) auction. IF he holds legnth in that suit, then your minor honors would serve you well.

unilke richard, I will make fit jump with QJxxx, of course I guess ideal would be KQxxx.... I will do it with AJxxx too, but not Axxxx.

Ben

[cherdano]

Well, of course the ideal holding for a fit jump is KQxxx. But equaly obviously, in competivie auction, you can't always wait for the perfect hand, but you often have to make the bid that gives the best possible description within one bid to partner. I think Richard's desire to space-taking jumps very descriptive is wrong in a competitive auction -- you might only be preserving bids that your LHO is going take away with a jump raise immediately, and you have only made a space-preserving, but non-descriptive bid.

I think I might make a fit jump based on Axxxx with a hand like ♠Axxxx ♥x ♦KJxx ♣xxx in the auction 1♦ (partner) 1♥ (RHO) 2♠ (me), as it seems the best guess toward 4♠ (making or as a save). But in the non-competitive auction given in this thread I would avoid it.

Btw, I am surprised Ben didn't mention that x Axxxx xx Axxxx should have been opened

Arend

[hrothgar]

cherdano, on Oct 11 2005, 09:26 PM, said:

I think Richard's desire to space-taking jumps very descriptive is wrong in a competitive auction -- you might only be preserving bids that your LHO is going take away with a jump raise immediately, and you have only made a space-preserving, but non-descriptive bid.

Its very unclear that this is going to be a competitive auction.

Partner opened in 4th seat suggesting reasonable values.
Neither RHO or LHO have been able to find a bid yet.

Accordingly, I want to provide partner with a good description of my hand to permit him to find a cheap game or slam. As a secondary priority, I'd like to use up a fair amount of bidding space to block the opponents from finding a good sacrifice. However, I can easily eat up bidding space without a fit jump. I suspect that my bidding arsenal has some way to for passed hand to show a mixed raise with 4+ card trump support. The weakness of the club suit leads me to prefer this...

[EricK]

I wouldn't make a fit jump, but I would make a ♠ splinter as it tells my partner that despite my opening pass my hand has become HUGE. Make the ♣ suit KQxxx and I would FJ rather than splinter as it is more helpful to partner.

Eric

[keylime]

I like fit jumps to show relatively concentrated values. I'm not a fan of them with a A-x or a K-x (and A stiff) to be appropriate.

[mike777]

Jlall, on Oct 11 2005, 12:32 PM, said:

OK let's say you have x Axxxx xx Axxxx. 3 passes to pard who opens 1H and RHO passes. At first I thought this looks like the most auto fit jump ever. Then I thought more... isn't a stiff with partner GREAT? He certainly won't realize that. Aren't Qx, JTx, Jxx pretty poor holdings? He won't realize that either...

So I thought...maybe Axxxx should not be fit jumped? Or maybe it should anyways, he'll evaluate Kxx or Kx well, and he'll realize we have a potential source of tricks if he has like...QJxx etc. KQxxx certainly seems like a better holding, but life isn't perfect. Anyone have thoughts on this?

BTW at the table my partner opened a strong club and we breezed into slam. He only had 16 points though, and it was his stiff club that made slam so good. I was thinking we'd probably miss it in a standard system if I had made a fit jump which I'm sure I would have.

Here is another viewpoint.

Try 1H=4D

4D=5 trumps, less than 10 hcp and 1 to 1.5 outside tricks, an A, or A-K in different suits or AQ in one suit, KQ in one suit, KQ plus K, or two kings.

[hrothgar]

Jlall, on Oct 11 2005, 10:21 PM, said:

OK, many seem to agree that this is NOT the right hand for a fit jump.

Next question, is this the right hand for a splinter? I believe Mikeh said or implied once that a splinter bid was made in order to get partner to realize all values outside of the splinter suit were working. This is not the case here as we have xx in diamonds. Splinters are not usually made with 5-5 hands, but if this hand is not suitable for a fit jump is it suitable for a splinter?

Not fond of the Splinter for much the same reasons you give.
I'm comfortable splinter on 5431 hands, but it normally feels wrong on 5521s.

With the hand in question, I'd probably bid 2NT (or 2♠, or whatever garbage bid I have.....)

[han]

I absolutely agree that it depends on the auction. For instance, if partner opens 1H and RHO overcalls 2S, I would definitely make a 4C bid with x Axxxx xx Axxxx. There is no bid that leaves partner better placed over the likely 4S bid than this. In this case, partner knows that a stiff is a good defensive holding but length in clubs is a good offensive holding.

It is true that 4C may not be great for slam purposes, but what are the alternatives?

In constructive auctions I usually don't play fit jumps. If I did I would make them only with descriptive hands.

[cherdano]

Btw Justin, does this mean you haven't read THE BOOK (Robson/Segal)???

Well, I have no business telling you how to study bridge, but my guess is that you would still get a lot out of it. (I don't think the Robson/Segal hearsay adequately communicates the actual content -- there is a lot more in there than "fit showing jumps are good" and "we need a lot of bids to show fits".)

Arend

[Al_U_Card]

Hmmmmn, 2D drury with 4+ trumps could work out. They do have a lot of spades tho and when the bidding gets higher, your ace's usefulness may get ambiguous, but they didn't come in and pard may have S honors so....

[Fluffy]

Fit jumps are designed for competitive auctions, when both opponents decide to pass better bid slowly

[Chamaco]

Jlall, on Oct 11 2005, 05:32 PM, said:

OK let's say you have x Axxxx xx Axxxx. 3 passes to pard who opens 1H and RHO passes. At first I thought this looks like the most auto fit jump ever. Then I thought more... isn't a stiff with partner GREAT? He certainly won't realize that. Aren't Qx, JTx, Jxx pretty poor holdings? He won't realize that either...

So I thought...maybe Axxxx should not be fit jumped? Or maybe it should anyways, he'll evaluate Kxx or Kx well, and he'll realize we have a potential source of tricks if he has like...QJxx etc. KQxxx certainly seems like a better holding, but life isn't perfect. Anyone have thoughts on this?

BTW at the table my partner opened a strong club and we breezed into slam. He only had 16 points though, and it was his stiff club that made slam so good. I was thinking we'd probably miss it in a standard system if I had made a fit jump which I'm sure I would have.

I am not keen about using Axxxx as fitshowing.

Of course it depends on what the pship agreed about it.

The way I play it, my pard will expect at least 2 of the top 5 honors and will reevaluate a lot even Qx (and quite often Jx) in the sidesuit, and that does not seem appealing to me, given the posted hand.

This hand looks like a 2NT raise to me.

[MickyB]

Agreed, Axxxx isn't a good holding for a fit-jump. Similarly Axxx for a long suit trial.