[twcho]

I held: QJ873 1082 Q74 93 at MP, red vs white
The bidding went 1♠ on my left and double from my partner. RHO passed. What shall I bid now?

I chose 1NT and my partner quickly raised me to 3NT with his 17 HCP hand and he said that he expected me to have at least 8 HCP for my 1NT bid.

What is the standard range for bidding 1NT here?

What is the right bid here? 2♦, 2♥, 1NT or pass?

[nigel_k]

The only choices are 1NT and 2♦. Your spades are too weak to pass and 2♥ has no advantage over 2♦ and is more likely to be raised.

1NT does show some values but need not be 8 HCP. Here the alternative of 2♦ is really unattractive so I would try 1NT. I do expect partner to raise it too high sometimes though. If I had a four card suit, e.g. one of the hearts was a diamond then I would bid 2♦.

[the hog]

I would bid 2D.

[Hanoi5]

2♦. You need some 3HCP's more for 1NT.

[Codo]

nigel_k, on Jul 19 2010, 06:43 PM, said:

The only choices are 1NT and 2♦. Your spades are too weak to pass and 2♥ has no advantage over 2♦ and is more likely to be raised.

1NT does show some values but need not be 8 HCP. Here the alternative of 2♦ is really unattractive so I would try 1NT. I do expect partner to raise it too high sometimes though. If I had a four card suit, e.g. one of the hearts was a diamond then I would bid 2♦.

Amen

[gwnn]

just.. pass

don't bid 3 card suits on the 2 level unless you really have to. don't pull doubles to contracts that are not going to make, or if they were going to make, partner will take you higher. *



so
1st option : pass
2nd option: STOP 2♦.
3rd option: very slow 1NT bid

*there's a corollary to this philosophy: don't double on one suited hands just because "but I had a 16 count!! and 5.75 quick tricks! and 7.43 playing tricks! and very few losers!!"

[NickRW]

So much for expert consensus! I admit it is an uncomfortable situation to be in, but I thought the book bid was 2♦ - as the spades aren't good enough to pass and 1NT would promise more. 2nd choice for me would be pass and pray.

[pooltuna]

I'm pitching my tent next to Nigel's

[TylerE]

Shoot partner. Raising 1N to 2N should be standard with a 16-18 type hand. On this auction 1N is frequently not going to be a super hand.

[mikeh]

I would bid 1N, fully aware that I am overbidding/misbidding. I chose it only because this is NOT a hand on which to pass 1♠ doubled....whoever has the critical 9/10 of spades rates to be playing for the bad guys, and I won't like it if LHO has one or both...which he is favourite to do.

And it is not as if I have a call that shows this hand. Obviously, if we knew that partner would cater to this hand over 2♦, we'd probably prefer that.....tho I hope he isn't (edited to eliminate a 14th card)2=4=3=4 for those of you who do bid 2♦

I should add that I play a style in which if partner has a very weak 1=4=4=4 or the like, he is not only allowed to but should bid 2minor....2♣ with 1=4=4=4 and 2♦ with 5 of them. Good hands don't bid 2minor....they raise notrump appropriately or with very strong one suiters, cue or jump in the minor. Average hands pass.

This means that I will sometimes scramble to 2♦ when it is right (or least wrong), and get to play notrump otherwise...and if partner bids game, at least I can expect to declare almost double dummy (altho that may mean only that I KNOW I'm in trouble).

If he has the hand that would raise 1N to game, he isn't passing 2♦ anyway. 2♦ is a very wide range call, and he can't afford to be passing with 16-17 hcp and short spades.

[ArtK78]

mikeh, on Jul 19 2010, 02:20 PM, said:

And it is not as if I have a call that shows this hand. Obviously, if we knew that partner would cater to this hand over 2♦, we'd probably prefer that.....tho I hope he isn't 2=4=3=5 for those of you who do bid 2♦

I have an agreement with all of my partners that they are not allowed to make takeout doubles on hands with 14 cards.

[hanp]

I was about to agree with mikeh and then I read his last sentence. Of course partner should bid more aggressively over 1NT, the maximum values for 2D are close to the minimum values for 1NT call. Still, 1NT will often get passed out and then we'll often do better there than in 2D. And passing, even though it will rarely be a big disaster, will often lead to an unnecessarily large minus score.

I disagree more strongly with TylerE who says that partner should raise to 2NT on 16-18.

In the end I think that none of pass, 1NT and 2D are terrible, and all will be best on a decent portion of the hands. I think I'll go with the majority and bid 2D.

[mikeh]

hanp, on Jul 19 2010, 03:06 PM, said:

I was about to agree with mikeh and then I read his last sentence. Of course partner should bid more aggressively over 1NT, the maximum values for  2D are close to the minimum values for 1NT call. Still, 1NT will often get passed out and then we'll often do better there than in 2D. And passing, even though it will rarely be a big disaster, will often lead to an unnecessarily large minus score.

I disagree more strongly with TylerE who says that partner should raise to 2NT on 16-18.

In the end I think that none of pass, 1NT and 2D are terrible, and all will be best on a decent portion of the hands. I think I'll go with the majority and bid 2D.

The difference is that opener will think he has a fit for diamonds, and thus be tempted to bid on some hands with short spades and better than expected diamonds, whereas he'd pass 1N on the basis of a suspected misfit. I agree that these hands won't be common.

I also disagree that the maximum values for 2♦ are close to the minimum for 1N. With 3=3=4=3 9 or 10 counts, are we really jumping to 3♦??

Jxx xxx KQxx QJx doesn't look like a 3♦ call to me.

[hanp]

Agree, that certainly does not look like a 3D call. It also looks close to a minimal 1NT call, except for the lack in stopper. It doesn't strike me as a very powerful hand.

[Siegmund]

1NT is reasonable, and quite possibly the best call on the cards you hold; it's still an overbid, and 8 is close to what partner ought to expect. Whether partner should have bounced it straight to 3NT is debatable - but if you're of the "bid 3NT with all the 24s" school, yes, he should.

[Cascade]

Sure I should be reluctant to bid 1NT but I am not sure where the idea of a king more comes from.

This hand is more no trump oriented than suit oriented and the one-level is lower than the two-level. Ok sure I might get raised - as it happens I will decline any invitation. I can also pass when partner bids a suit - any suit - over 1NT and we are still only at the two-level.

[jdonn]

I hate the idea of 2♦ on such a notrump oriented hand. I'd rather take my chances overbidding and at least avoid the possibility of a 3-3 fit.