[bridgeboy]

Matchpoints All Vul

You hold:

A
KQx
9765
A9654

RHO deals and open 1D and the bidding proceeds:

1D Pass 1S Pass
2D Pass Pass 3C
3H ?

Do you agree with the first 2 passes?
What now?

Thanks all

This post has been edited by bridgeboy: 2005-September-28, 03:45

[Impact]

You cannot bid less than 5C as partner's xxxx xxx x Kxxxx gives a very adequate play for game.

Presumably partner will hold at least 5C and short D for his balance....

There is a reasonable argument that you should bid 4H to look for slam but he is going to be subminimal anyway and will be reluctant to show any control.

If he has 2D he should have compensating values.

Of course, step 2 of this operation is what to do over the 5D bid.....presumably just double and hope that his hand is not as bad as my example!

It is unlikely that opener would have introduced a J high suit in this auction and have the values to take the auction to the 4 level potentially so you are likely looking at losing 2 red A.

With these cards behind the opener just bid 5C.

I am not a huge fan of bidding on poor 5 card suits at the 2 level - although it seems to work well for the lucky oppos, so I would not have bid first time round and your Honours are in short suits: if partner couldn't balance where were you going (other than to do some damage to 2D).

[helene_t]

It was RHO who opened, right?

The 3♥ bid is strange. Is it showing a 5-6 or is it an 8-card diamonds with a hearts feauture?

Anyway, I bid 5♣.

[mr1303]

I like to cut my partner slack whenever possible, but he shouldn't bid a ropey club suit here (dangerous suit, since responder could well have long clubs) on a misfit auction.

All my points look like they're working, so I'll put 5C in as well

[flytoox]

I would bid 4C. 5C is too much. Dont hang your pd when he balances. He cannot have much for 3C. Making 4C is certainly a good score. If Opp bid 4H, I plan to dbl them.

Note that pd cannot have xxxx,xx,x,kxxxxx. Pd must have some diamonds.

[whereagles]

I'll stick to 4 only. There's no reason to think pard has a singleton diamond and I don't think we can make than 4 in that case.

Besides, there's no need to shoot at 5♣. You can try for game with 3NT, for instance. (Can hardly be natural...)

[Chamaco]

Quote

Do you agree with the first 2 passes?

1st pass ok.
I did not like the 2nd pass, I'd have doubled for takeout.

Quote

What now?

I think the damage is already done with the second round pass.
Whatever bid we make now, will be one-sided, whereas if we had started with a 2nd round double, pard could have cooperated better.

For a balancing seat 3C, pard can be very weak, and bidding 5C is a gamble.
On the other hand, bidding only 4C may easily miss a game, and it is not unlikely that the best game could have been 3NT (unbiddable after the 2 passes).

I'll settle for 4 clubs.

[Blofeld]

Chamaco said:

1st pass ok.
I did not like the 2nd pass, I'd have doubled for takeout.

I'm not sure that a 2nd round double would have been takeout.

But then, with 4 cards in the suit you're doubling and 5 and 3 in the unbid suits, I'm not sure that I understand precisely what you mean by a takeout double. I wouldn't make one here even if it were available to me.

[Chamaco]

Quote

I'm not sure that a 2nd round double would have been takeout.

That's to define with your pship. I think the most common treatment here is takeout.

I know that some players would play it as a penalty suggestion, but I suspect that the frequency of occurrence of penalty oriented hands is much lower than the frequency of hands suited for competition using a negative double here.

Quote

But then, with 4 cards in the suit you're doubling and 5 and 3 in the unbid suits, I'm not sure that I understand precisely what you mean by a takeout double. I wouldn't make one here even if it were available to me.

Sure, the ideal takeout promises 44 in unbid suits.
But the stronger the hand is, the more urge there is to show the values even being slightly offshape.

We cannot always use t/o dbl with the perfect shape.

Here I have only a 3 card major, but KQx.
I think that the risk of being stolen (passing) is much higher than one of playing in a Moysian fit.

[han]

5C for me, agree wth first two passes.

I play that the 2nd double is take-out, but last time I looked I had only 3 hearts.

[Al_U_Card]

Devil's advocacy is highly over-rated (especially when Justin is in court.... ) but where are the fits in these hands, as well as the hcp?

Their S are behind ours, their H behind ours, they may have no C losers (or only as many as we have D losers) so I think that they have a D fit and responder has a weakish hand 6-8 hcp max while opener has a nice one with prime values and no fear of playing game in a red suit if pard is 5-4 and weak in the majors.

A hellish problem where any decision could be right. When responder bids 5D over 5C, do you sell?

[Fluffy]

4♠, partner's got void in ♦, if he has enough trumps we will make 6 with ease. I had a similiar problem once, and failed to try for 6, now I won't fail to do so

[jdeegan]

[mikeh]

I have a sneaking admiration for Fluffy's 4♠: slam is a favourite opp xxxx xxx void KQxxxx.

But I do not think that my partner will ever have the nerve to bid 6

So I am not going to torment him. Bidding 4♠ will make him groan (plus 4♠ may not play well ) and if we miss a slam, he may beat up on himself when, in reality, I would like to commend him for a brave (vul v vul, misfit auction) balance.

So I am going to bid a boring 5♣.

For those who think that 5♣ is too much: just what kind of balancing maniacs do you play with? Vulnerable 3-level balancing on a misfit??

And for those who are afraid of ♦ losers? What kind of hand are you expecting?

Partner has a LOT of black cards. He may be 4=1=2=6, but I very, very much doubt it. He knows, with that shape, that the opps have missed at least a 4=4 ♥ fit, and possibly a 5-4 fit (responder weak with 5-5 majors, for example).

In a matchpoint field, given the different methods that the field plays, some pairs will have found 2♥, so defending 2♦ hardly rates to be a disaster when he is 4=1=2=6 or so. Plus he heard your passes and knows that you have the high card values (but not the shape) to have acted. So he knows that you will have some ♦ length: heck, you may even hold 5 of them!

5♣ may fail, but I would estimate its chances at 80% or better. (Biddable) slam at 5% or less. I expect 5♣ making 6 to get 85% or better of the matchpoints, so trying to turn a near top into a cold top is not high on my agenda.

[pigpenz]

i would pass playing with me

[jdeegan]

Jlall, on Sep 29 2005, 11:53 AM, said:

jdeegan, on Sep 29 2005, 11:47 AM, said:

But, wait a second.  Isn't this one of those situations where we can perform a little operation with the objective being to play the hand at 5♣?

I see no reason to think that if we walk the dog with something like a 4C bid the opps are going to bid. They did pass out 2D. I also see no reason to feel sure 5C is cold. I think we have a good chance to make, but hands exist where we go down and we should beat 5D at least 2 so I wouldn't mind a save. I also see no reason to think that if we bid FIVE clubs on this auction they will consider a save. We are clearly guessing, and they had stopped in 2D, so it's very tough to feel confident enough that we are making to save.

I do believe there are hands to operate and try to walk the dog, but I believe they are infrequent and people try it too much. In general just bidding what you think you can make will work well.

UR correct. I neglected to note the intervening 3♥ bid. This auction is weird enough already.

[adhoc3]

So odd went the bidding. I wonder someone misclicked.

ROH showed a monster hand of ♦7~8♥4. LOH would not stay put. 4♣ is a too cheap contract. I am thinking what should I do after LOH's 4♥. I would not need red card.

5♣. If pd has not problem to handle, 4♥, 4♠, 4NT.