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MP, at high level

Poll: Your bid? (28 member(s) have cast votes)

Your bid?

  1. Double (25 votes [89.29%])

    Percentage of vote: 89.29%

  2. 5 spades (3 votes [10.71%])

    Percentage of vote: 10.71%

  3. 6 spades (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  4. other (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

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#1 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2005-September-26, 11:11

Scoring: MP

W - N - E - S
2♥-2NT-5♣-??

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#2 Guest_Jlall_*

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Posted 2005-September-26, 11:16

X... 6223 with KJx of clubs is not my idea of a hand I want to bid to the 5 level on. I assume they will pull this to 5H which I will also X. Take the cash and dont allow them to push you around.
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#3 User is offline   mike777 

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Posted 2005-September-26, 11:17

X but I guess there must be some trick to this one.
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#4 User is offline   pclayton 

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Posted 2005-September-26, 12:04

Well I double. 5♣'s sounds like its made with a big heart fit, but this looks unlikely with my ♥xx.

I also like a double because it sets up a forcing sequence.
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#5 User is offline   pigpenz 

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Posted 2005-September-26, 12:11

pclayton, on Sep 26 2005, 01:04 PM, said:

Well I double. 5♣'s sounds like its made with a big heart fit, but this looks unlikely with my ♥xx.

I also like a double because it sets up a forcing sequence.

i like double, but i dont see how it sets up a forcing sequence?
alot of bidding going on here!
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#6 User is offline   mikeh 

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Posted 2005-September-26, 14:17

A double here has to be forcing.

A useful rule, when doubling the opps in a 2-suit sequence, is never double the only contract you can beat. If you are afraid that they can bid and make 5♥, don't double 5♣.

Partner knows this as well, so when you double 5♣ you are announcing that you are ready to defend 5♥ doubled (or, on a real freak, bid and make something). Thus partner can (but usually won't) pass 5♥ should your LHO bid it. If it goes 5♣ x p p 5♥, you can (should you choose) make a forcing pass. However, with this hand, I double again.

5♠ is the only other choice (now or later), but if it fails, the opps own you forever.

And if I did bid 5♠, I would not be surprised to find the opps ruffing ♣, at either (but not both ;) ) tricks one or two.

If RHO really has something resembling a 5♣ suit, then LHO will probably hold a stiff.

If RHO is kidding, he may well be doing so on something like 3=4=6=0. LHO may well be something like 1=5=2=5 with partner being 3=3=2=5 (I hope I have not created any 14 card suits :D ).
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#7 User is offline   whereagles 

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Posted 2005-September-27, 03:02

eheh.. I though you were going to show that hand of Figueira where you overcalled with a 7-4 only to find pard with the opposite 6-5. (Your father is completely wrong on that one, by the way.)

As for this hand, I double.
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#8 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2005-September-27, 07:54

whereagles, on Sep 27 2005, 09:02 AM, said:

eheh.. I though you were going to show that hand of Figueira where you overcalled with a 7-4 only to find pard with the opposite 6-5. (Your father is completely wrong on that one, by the way.)

As for this hand, I double.

Doh, I though you weren't living in Portugal, you have been in Figueira?, ,did I play that awful hand against you?, I didn't recognice you, but it had been 10 years since Cardiff :rolleyes:.
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#9 User is offline   whereagles 

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Posted 2005-September-28, 04:42

I was in Holland for 5 years for PhD. Now I'm back in Portugal. Living close to Figueira, acutally. Was there on thursday for the teams, but was too busy to play the week-end pairs. I haven't been playing much actually (so many things, so little time). But maybe one of these days we meet at a major tournament. I heard you have a beard now... eheh.
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#10 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2005-September-28, 07:50

Very well, Very well, seems most of you got it right, my opponent didn't and so I though it was closer, maybe the problem should be transfered to East then. The full hand.

Scoring: MP


My 5♣ bid was based on the sure huge ♠ fit that opponents had wich I though almost assured me they would bid into 5 level at least. And so happened, but risking 1400 to get a full average wasn't worth the risk I'd say :(.

Is 5♣ too agressive in your opinion?
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#11 Guest_Jlall_*

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Posted 2005-September-28, 08:07

I like the 5C bid. Many people when they are red/white refuse to take the cash, they press on so that they dont get "stolen" from. It's quite amazing, and with your spade void I agree if you didn't have good opps a 5S bid is likely. And then you get your club lead, so I like it. Against good opponents, I would say its probably too risky.
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#12 User is offline   Blofeld 

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  Posted 2005-September-28, 08:20

I like 5♣. It's a calculated risk, but there are more good outcomes than bad.
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#13 User is offline   pclayton 

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Posted 2005-September-28, 08:56

No comment on 5♣ :D.

I play it as fitted for hearts, so its out of the question for me :o :D .
"Phil" on BBO
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#14 Guest_Jlall_*

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Posted 2005-September-28, 08:58

can't you bid 5C both with or without a fit? If you have 8-9 clubs you'll usually want to bid it, and if you have a heart fit you'll just pull a X to 5H. If they don't X then that's fine too since you are saving.
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#15 User is offline   pclayton 

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Posted 2005-September-28, 09:17

Jlall, on Sep 28 2005, 06:58 AM, said:

can't you bid 5C both with or without a fit? If you have 8-9 clubs you'll usually want to bid it, and if you have a heart fit you'll just pull a X to 5H. If they don't X then that's fine too since you are saving.

Not really - one of the purposes of fit jumps is to consult pard on subsequent rounds. If 5♣ is "either/or", pard's input is impossible. If my LHO doubles 5♣, the 2-way meaning works great, but if LHO competes and pard bids 6♥ on the right type of hand expecting heart help, he won'be be happy.
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#16 Guest_Jlall_*

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Posted 2005-September-28, 09:25

pclayton, on Sep 28 2005, 10:17 AM, said:

Not really - one of the purposes of fit jumps is to consult pard on subsequent rounds. If 5♣ is "either/or", pard's input is impossible. If my LHO doubles 5♣, the 2-way meaning works great, but if LHO competes and pard bids 6♥ on the right type of hand expecting heart help, he won'be be happy.

The only time I could ever imagine partner bidding at the 6 level is with a club fit, no? If you have a 1 suiter in clubs this should be fine, and if you have H+C this should also be fine. Partner is only going to evaluate his hand as worth another bid with a club fit. Even with a 2 way hand type, partner bidding is fine either way.
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#17 User is offline   cherdano 

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Posted 2005-September-28, 10:12

Jlall, on Sep 28 2005, 05:25 PM, said:

pclayton, on Sep 28 2005, 10:17 AM, said:

Not really - one of the purposes of fit jumps is to consult pard on subsequent rounds. If 5♣ is "either/or", pard's input is impossible. If my LHO doubles 5♣, the 2-way meaning works great, but if LHO competes and pard bids 6♥ on the right type of hand expecting heart help, he won'be be happy.

The only time I could ever imagine partner bidding at the 6 level is with a club fit, no? If you have a 1 suiter in clubs this should be fine, and if you have H+C this should also be fine. Partner is only going to evaluate his hand as worth another bid with a club fit. Even with a 2 way hand type, partner bidding is fine either way.

I disagree. Playing 5♣ specifically as fit jump does add useful information for partner, for example, he won't get excited about the defensive prospects of his ♥AK holding.
(I am not claiming to know that fit jump is superior here.)
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#18 User is offline   han 

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Posted 2005-September-28, 10:34

I do think that playing 5C as a fit jump here is superior when your partner is Fluffy.
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.

- hrothgar
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